Second anchor on 54 MY ??

[Bill Root]

The 54 MY I just bought came with a stainless steel 60# Danforth as the main anchor. It does not have a second anchor. What would you experts who anchor out a lot recommend as a second anchor for this 65,000lb. boat?

My biggest concern is that although I can use a windlass to pull the second anchor up to the deck, I will need to lift it over the rail by hand, so I don't want anything heavier than necessary.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[rsmith]

I've had some bad experiences anchoring. I have 2 Danforth 35ht's with 20' of chain and I've had them drag in the typical middle of the night Bahamas t storms. If I were getting a new anchor I think I would try a plow type to cut thru grass and hard bottom. Could you launch and recover it from the stern?
I'm sure this thread will spark a lot of debate. A lot of MY guys are very passionate about swinging on the hook. I sleep better tied to the dock.

 

[Bill Root]

I hope I do get some good debate here. On my former boat, a 43'DCMY, I had a 45# CQR knock-off as primary and a 28# Danforth for a second anchor. We did the entire Great Loop with that set-up, anchored out at least 100 nights and had the primary anchor drag only twice. We used a second anchor only two times.

This new boat is a different animal, though. I have given some thought to buying a 60# galvanized plow for the main anchor and putting that fancy, shiny Danforth on the deck. That's what the PO did when he went to the Bahamas, but he had a full time captain. The chocks for the Danforth are still on the deck. Hauling that big anchor up over the rail and onto the deck by hand does not sound like fun, though.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

My original Danforth with an all chain rode has been great. Had the same thing on the boat that we did the loop with. Right now, I have a Fortress for a backup. Since it's aluminum, it's easy to handle.

 

[TopHattandTails]

I'll 2nd the aluminum Fortress. Been anchoring a 61' SF for years with a light weight Fortress with all rope rode. Only down fall is a weedy bottom, tough to set. Loves mud.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Another nice feature of the Fortress, is that you can break it down for storage.

 

[rsmith]

A fortress is light but I'd sleep better with one of these

 

[Glory]

I'd suggest go a littler bigger nad use the new anchor as the main anchor. If things go well you will never need to use the backup anchor.

I'd also suggest all chain, the weight if chain will maintain the correct stock position, and all chain is eiser to recover with a chain gypsy, the change from line to chain is not an exact or perfect process. Other all chain benifits are, you will never have someone cross you anchor rode and cut it, less chaff danger than line and less likely to jam up during deployment.

On my 58YF I ues a 70# claw and 3/8 chain, all chain, and have held fast on a 55MPH blow.

JM

 

[Bill Root]

The primary anchor rode is all chain. The secondary is 3/4 rope.

Sky: what size is your Fortress?

 

[rsmith]

I'd suggest go a littler bigger nad use the new anchor as the main anchor. If things go well you will never need to use the backup anchor.

I'd also suggest all chain, the weight if chain will maintain the correct stock position, and all chain is eiser to recover with a chain gypsy, the change from line to chain is not an exact or perfect process. Other all chain benifits are, you will never have someone cross you anchor rode and cut it, less chaff danger than line and less likely to jam up during deployment.

On my 58YF I ues a 70# claw and 3/8 chain, all chain, and have held fast on a 55MPH blow.

JM

We had several boats anchored out In the indian river for Hur. Frances and Jeane the ones that used all chain jerked the anchors out of the bottom and ended up on the beach. The ones that used a combo of nylon/ chain made it thru. I would have thought all chain would be better but you need that shock absorbtion.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

The primary anchor rode is all chain. The secondary is 3/4 rope.

Sky: what size is your Fortress?

I have an FX55 but Airpilot has an FX85 on his 60C that he uses as a primary. I would think either one would work for you as a second anchor.

FWIW, My FX55 held a dock with 4 boats on it in a heavy blow in Killarney this summer.

 

[jim rosenthal]

There are some aluminum plow anchors available; I know the SPADE anchor comes in aluminum, although I don't know what the top of the range is, and maybe the Rocna? Both have scored very well in anchor tests. The SPADE also breaks down into two pieces, bolted together, kind of like the Fortress.

You already have a Danforth type anchor, otherwise I'd second the Fortress suggestions- they are great anchors. Interesting that someone uses one with rope rode, if I understood correctly; I've always heard that lightweight anchors like the Fortress benefit from a robust length of chain to make certain they lie on the bottom before setting.

 

[MikeP]

Where are you planning to cruise? If you are planning to stay in one general area - Long Island Sound or Chesapeake Bay or whatever, then I would ask locally what folks who anchor out a lot use for that area. An anchor that works great in one area may be rather poor in another.

On our 53 w/all chain rode, we used a plow up in LI sound when we lived there and it worked beautifully - set itself "automatically" and held in 40K winds; it was great. We moved to the Ches Bay and it dragged every time we deployed it (1000 feet one night on the Corsica River!). On the advice of several locals who anchor out a lot - including a friend with a 58 who rafts with as many as 10 boats on his anchor, I purchased a Fortress FX55 for the Ches. It holds so tenaciously that it usually takes a serious effort to release it. Once I thought I'd have to put on the scuba gear and take a shovel down! But I'd MUCH rather have to deal with working at getting it out than with wondering if it will hold. It held in Baltimore inner harbor at very short scope with a fresh breeze and that bottom is essentially soup. When we got back to the marina, folks came to look at the dried mud on "the anchor that held in the inner harbor!"

So it depends on where you are. But, as Jim said, I'd suggest that there be two different style anchors on board - either capable of holding the boat securely in the bottom conditions that they are best suited for. A third, smaller "lunch hook" might be OK though if you have/use a windlass I don't personally see any need for it.

 

[REBrueckner]

Form follows function.

Jim and Mike have the right idea:
"Where are you planning to cruise? .... An anchor that works great in one area may be rather poor in another."

Decide on the bottom type, then select from anchors that hold well in that bottom type, pick a size one larger than the mfg recommendation.


A plow is one type good for grassy bottoms, like Cuttyhunk and Nantucket, for example; Outside Cutty, I have anchored in eight foot deep water and could pick a clear sand area (no grass).... with a Hi tensile danforth in 40 plus knot winds...no problem.

In sloppy mud, the same Deepset Plow is useless; my Danforth must have been down below the surface of the really loose bottom mud 15 to 18 ft in Ebencook Harbor, Maine...the anchor line was muddy for 30 or more feet!!!

In rocky bottom like inside Flint Point at Sachuest on the Sakonnnet River (Mass) anchoring at Flint Point ledge, just out of the Swells of RI sound and the Atlantic, it's impossible to hold with a Danforth; My Deepset Plow worked like a charm.

If you do a search, newer anchor types have been discussed with comments from owners with first hand experience. People I have spoken with like the BRUCE.

 

[GJH]

We had several boats anchored out In the indian river for Hur. Frances and Jeane the ones that used all chain jerked the anchors out of the bottom and ended up on the beach. The ones that used a combo of nylon/ chain made it thru. I would have thought all chain would be better but you need that shock absorbtion.

That's why you use a bridle type anchor snubber. Then all-chain is superior. Have it set up with enough length so that the chain hook is well below the waterline at rest, and just comes out of the water when you back down to set the anchor. Have a big "lazy loop" of chain behind it that also hangs below the water line.

Heck, even a good single length of the right sized three strand attached with a rolling hitch gets the job done. We once hung for three days off the west end of Boot Key in a gale with that set up. The rope was guitar string tight a lot of the time. I kept thinking about putting out the second anchor, a Danforth 60HT, but darn we were holding tight in sustained 40's so why bother? Plus, if we dragged the next landfall was Cuba.. I'd be awake before then.

Main ground tackle is 3/8 BBB, Delta 88#, WASI Powerball swivel. We anchor a lot in reversing current situations, which is why I relegated the Danforth to back up. It is rigged and ready to deploy at a moment's notice with a length of the same type chain and 300' of 3 strand rode. When we go to the Chessie, I think about switching it back, but never have got around to it. Somewhere down "The List" is to switch out the Danforth for the much easier to handle Fortress, but as years go by and I never use it, the further down The List it goes. As noted, the Danforth/Fortress makes a nice second anchor because stands flat so doesn't take up much deck space. I also have a 40HT that is used as a stern anchor.

 

[REBrueckner]

"I would have thought all chain would be better but you need that shock absorbtion."

Nylon shock absorber is especially helpful in waves large enough to raise and lower the bow with the anchor chain/rope tight. Without that nylon elasticity stretch, such waves put a pulse of additional drag as might strong and sudden wind gusts.

Chain swivels: I've never found these to be necessary except for extended anchoring as on a mooring for months. I was going to put one on my new all chain rode when I swtiched from nylon years ago, but I could not find one whose rating matched that or the anchor and chain....and I did not want to use a "weak link"....Usually an additinal size swivel relative to the chain size is necessary to maintain tensile strength, but frequently such a larger diameter shackle doesn't fit the chain....I did not even find a stainless swivel that met my tensile strength and fit requirements...and I never regretted not using a swivel in about 10 years and likely 1,500 or more nights on the hook.

 

[dastahl]

Anchoring is sort of an art and usually leads to great discussions. My 42 LRC has a supermax 77 lb main anchor with 3/8 chain and 25' bridle of 5/8 nylon. It does not drag. The supermax guy did not want to sell it to me, he suggested a smaller version. The Skooch anchor rule is simple. Use the largest heaviest biggest anchor you and your boat can handle and attach it to the boat with the largest heaviest biggest rode you and your boat can handle and let out as much rode as you have room to let out.

I carry a 40 Danfort as a second anchor but have never used it. I would like to get a big fortress that I can take apart and get the danfort off the deck. But the previous owner had deck problems under the danfort and did not finish off the fix very well. The anchor hides the crappy deck finish so not only would I have to buy the expensive anchor but I would have to fix the deck. I guess it will stay way down on the list of things to do.

 

[bobk]

I hope I do get some good debate here. On my former boat, a 43'DCMY, I had a 45# CQR knock-off as primary and a 28# Danforth for a second anchor. We did the entire Great Loop with that set-up, anchored out at least 100 nights and had the primary anchor drag only twice. We used a second anchor only two times.

This new boat is a different animal, though. I have given some thought to buying a 60# galvanized plow for the main anchor and putting that fancy, shiny Danforth on the deck. That's what the PO did when he went to the Bahamas, but he had a full time captain. The chocks for the Danforth are still on the deck. Hauling that big anchor up over the rail and onto the deck by hand does not sound like fun, though.

OK, here is a cruising MY guy weighing in. In my previous life I was a trawler kind of guy. May still be since the 48MY is a dual mode boat that is happy at displacement speed. Like Dave and many of the trawler/cruising crowd, I like the big Supermax anchor. It is tough to break out and retrieve, but that is what I want from an anchor. It holds well and either does not breakout on a tide change or it resets so well that I don't recognize it. I never tried it in rocks, but it will penetrate grass if given the chance to do so slowly.

Bottom line, my advice is get a big Supermax as your primary and save the current one as a back-up. The 75# max needs an adjustment to the bow roller set-up to make retrieval easy, but it is a simple thing to do. I think I posted a picture of how I did it. By the way, I always use a snubber or bridle to absorb shock and take the load off the winch and platform.

Bob
Chateau de Mer
1981 48MY

 

[GJH]

Rob, not all swivels are created equally. The WASI is a whole different animal, and is any thing but a weak link. I too would avoid cheap swivels.

I don't know what role the WASI plays in the excellent results we have enjoyed in high reversing current places. I do know that we have held in problem spots like Bahia Honda and Beaufort, SC just to name two of a few dozen, for days on end in all kinds of weather on just the one anchor.

Anchoring is 80% technique and 20% ground tackle. And that is giving ground tackle too much credit especially if sized correctly regardless of design. The only times I have ever even slightly dragged was when I took a shortcut, like setting a lazy lunch hook, too little scope, too fast a set. Remedial action by doing it right corrected the issue immediately in every case.

 

[Bill Root]

This has all been great discussion. I really appreciate it.

We will be primarily cruising the east coast ICW from Florida to Chesapeake Bay, maybe as far north as Cape May. We may also do the Bahamas for a month or two.