rudder posts

[hatteras45]

does anyone have information or experience with repacking the rudder posts of the type used on a 1969 45c. thanks Stan

 

[Nonchalant1]

First - are you sure you can't just adjust it? If there are any threads left showing below the gland nuts, you can very likely adjust it tighter. That's much more simple than repacking.

If it's already adjusted down to the bottom and needs repacking, what type is it? I think there are two basic types: split type and solid post and cap type. I have the solid post and cap type and you repack it just like a prop shaft gland as follows:

1. Buy repacking material of the correct size. My 1978 53MY has 2 inch shafts and takes 1/2 inch packing, one package per side (3 or 4 wraps). Use "GFO" packing material, which is a new type that's much better than flax. If you use GFO, you'll never have to repack.

2. Get a flexible packing puller (like $16 at BoatUS) if there's a choice get the better one. It's like a flexible corkscrew for getting all the old packing out. Also get three 3-inch and three 4-inch self tapping drywall screws and a vice grip pliers.

3. Get two flat wrenches that fit the gland and locking nut. Originally, Hatteras supplied two of the correct size. They're like 3.5 inch nut wrenches with 8-inch flat steel inch handles. Also get two 12 to 18 inch pipes that fit over the wrench handles to use as breaker bars if the locking nut is stuck.

4. Check your bilge pumps if you're doing this in the water. It's easier if you're hauled, but possible in the water too.

5. Pre-cut the all of the packing material using a pipe or jar that's exactly the same size as the rudder shaft. Make the cuts on a 45 degree angle instead of flat ends, so the material overlaps where it fits together.

6. Unscrew the bottom locking nut on the gland by holding the gland with one wrench and wrenching the locking nut with the other. On mine, it's a standard thread so the locking nut unlocks by rotating it clockwise as viewed from the top of the rudder post, while the gland will take counter clockwise pressure at the same time. It doesn't matter which one turns first. After the locking nut is loose, unscrew it down all the way to the bottom of the post.

7. Screw the top gland all the way up to where it's looser on the shaft and you can reach the packing. Check the new packing material size before removing the old packing material, because that's when the water really satrts coming in.

8. Use the flex packing removing tool to remove all the layers of old packing. It may be very old, very hard and hard to start. If it was packed correctly, it'll be in layers (usually 3 to 5 layers). If it was packed incorrectly, it'll be one long piece of flax wrapped multiple times around the shaft. Screw the tool into each layer and pull hard to start it, then pull it out. If it sticks, screw a drywall screw into the packing material, being careful not to mar the shaft. It's OK to mar the inside of the gland surface, but not the shaft, so be careful of the angle of the screw. Use the vice-grips to pull hard to get the layer out. Make sure you remove all layers of the old packing. You can feel the remover tool scraping against metal at the top of the gland and it won't screw into anything after the last layer is out.

9. Put in the new layers of packing. If necessary, you can screw the gland down on each successive layer to seat them higher and make room for the next layer. Make sure each layer is in correctly and rotate the butt joint on each layer 90 degrees from the previous layer. You need to have enough room after the last layer to get enough threads screwed into the gland to get good pressure on the packing without stripping the threads at the top when you adjust it the first time.

10. Thread the gland down onto the threads and crank it with the wrench just until it stops leaking plus 1/8th turn. Dry it and watch - it should stay dry. Bring the locking nut up to lock it in place. It has to be locked tight enough to not turn on the shaft when you turn the rudders, but not so tight you can't get it unlocked to adjust it. I use hard hand pressure on the 8 inch wrench handles to lock it, but never a breaker bar to tighten.

11. Go turn the rudders from the helm back and forth from stop to stop (it should not make it any harder to turn the wheel). Recheck the gland and retighten. If it stays dry, go run the boat, making lots of turns. Recheck and retighten. Keep checking occasionally for a few weeks. It'll stay completely dry.

12 Forget it for 10 years except for Spring commissioning. If you're hauled for a long time, it may drip for a while after relaunching and then stay dry.

Doug Shuman
1978 53MY

 

[hatteras45]

Doug, thanks for the detailed info. I will attempt to tighten or replace the packing tomorrow. Thanks again Stan

 

[Banshee36]

One little thing to make your life easier loosening up the gland nuts. Spray them liberallly with wd-40, then hit them with a brass hammer. They should come right loose. It does work.
JW

 

[mike]

just did this last week on a 53 MY... PB Blaster works even better that WD 40. The rapping on the nut with a brass hammer really helps. You will also need the extensions mentioned in the earlier post. The wrench can be purchased from Buck-Algonquin for about $25 each.

 

[first230sl]

Darn! Really? I just had two wrenches made for my 58 YF. The toal was about $250. I tried Sams, Hatteras, etc - no one had them nor knew where to get them.

Oh well - live and learn.

Murray

just did this last week on a 53 MY... PB Blaster works even better that WD 40. The rapping on the nut with a brass hammer really helps. You will also need the extensions mentioned in the earlier post. The wrench can be purchased from Buck-Algonquin for about $25 each.

 

[Nonchalant1]

If you spray PB Blaster on anything near the interior of the boat, like rudder glands in the stateroom, pack paper towels all around the area first and don't let it drip. It'll make your stateroom smell like Orange County Choppers. I kind'a like the smell, but your womenfolk will not.

Also note: Don't use PB Blaster to try to clean seawall rust off of your white plastic/vinyl fenders. It stains them orange

Doug

 

[nautibake]

Hello - Reviving this old post. Amazing how much history / information you guys have contributed over more than 15 years, what a great resource (and very much appreciated).

On our cruise back to Punta Gorda from Venice the other day we had 4' following / quartering seas. The stabilizers handled it well but of course the Autopilot was really working the rudders. We had a nice trip (Mom on board and first time out for my brother) and settled into a nice evening. About 1:30 AM I noticed the aft bilge pump kicking in. I let it go through a couple of cycles counting the minutes between cycles, and it was getting down to only 4 minutes or so. This got my attention! I found a stream coming through the limber hole on the starboard side, just forward of the master shower sump. Went through the boat looking for a source anywhere there was a through-hull. Of course the very last place I looked was the rudder posts. The port side was just rebuilt / repacked, but the starboard side was spraying water out around the entire circumference of the rudder post like a sprinkler system, and the locking nut was about 3/8" below the large nut on top of the rudder post. I was able to reach through the 2 bottom dresser drawers and tightened up the top nut with the special wrench enough to slow the leak down to basically a drip.

Is it possible that the autopilot rudder inputs due to the following seas could have worked the top nut most of the way off (since the locking nut was apparently loose)? Is it possible for it to come completely off under these circumstances!?

Now I'm trying to tighten the lock-nut up to the top nut to snug it up and it just won't budge. I have sprayed with PB Blaster and let it soak. Tapped it and I have about a 1 foot long cheater bar on the wrench. Should I go with a longer cheater bar, or am I at risk of hurting the flange, bolts or anything on the rudder post itself?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated...
Jerry

 

[first230sl]

Jerry - first a major disclaimer - your mileage may differ and I cannot say for sure (obviously)
what will give first if you really reef on the locknut.

Now that I've given the disclaimer, I'll add that I have experience removing the rudder ports,
replacing the bolts, and re-installing them and re-seating them. Doing so required a large sledge
hammer and a whole lot of work. The fiberglass on my 58 Yachtfish in that area was very robust -
it has been a while but I'd say it was 2-3 inches thick. If your bolts are intact I can't imagine
much danger of dislodging the ports.

If the lock nut is badly stuck (so much so that something breaks before it loosens its grip), I am
guessing it would be the nut itself that breaks before the rudder port, and certainly before dislodging the
rudder port.

Again - my comments are pure speculation, supported only by the work I did a few years ago to
remove, re-seat and re-install my rudder ports on (essentially) the same boat. If I were in your shoes,
I'd do as much pb blaster and whacking on it with a small hammer as I could (careful not to damage the
threads with the hammer), and then just go with the longer bar.

Good luck!

 

[Boatsb]

The autopilot has nothing to do with the packing nut loosening except that it steered the boat instead of you.

 

[nautibake]

Jerry - first a major disclaimer - your mileage may differ and I cannot say for sure (obviously)
what will give first if you really reef on the locknut.

Now that I've given the disclaimer, I'll add that I have experience removing the rudder ports,
replacing the bolts, and re-installing them and re-seating them. Doing so required a large sledge
hammer and a whole lot of work. The fiberglass on my 58 Yachtfish in that area was very robust -
it has been a while but I'd say it was 2-3 inches thick. If your bolts are intact I can't imagine
much danger of dislodging the ports.

If the lock nut is badly stuck (so much so that something breaks before it loosens its grip), I am
guessing it would be the nut itself that breaks before the rudder port, and certainly before dislodging the
rudder port.

Again - my comments are pure speculation, supported only by the work I did a few years ago to
remove, re-seat and re-install my rudder ports on (essentially) the same boat. If I were in your shoes,
I'd do as much pb blaster and whacking on it with a small hammer as I could (careful not to damage the
threads with the hammer), and then just go with the longer bar.

Good luck!

Thanks for these notes! (and disclaimer acknowledged). I've just given her another coat of PB, will try the tap and lean a little harder method.

 

[nautibake]

The autopilot has nothing to do with the packing nut loosening except that it steered the boat instead of you.

Thanks Scott - good to know. It just seemed like an odd coincidence (following sea and rudder post springing a leak) but that is all it must have been.

 

[bobk]

You might also try some mild acid to help loosen the nut. Vinegar or lemon juice.

Bob

 

[nautibake]

You might also try some mild acid to help loosen the nut. Vinegar or lemon juice.

Bob

Thank you Bob. I'll give that a try. The PB has the MSR smelling like the local garage!

 

[SEVEN]

just did this last week on a 53 MY... PB Blaster works even better that WD 40. The rapping on the nut with a brass hammer really helps. You will also need the extensions mentioned in the earlier post. The wrench can be purchased from Buck-Algonquin for about $25 each.

My rudder post nuts are around 4 1/4 inches will they make that size?