Route Advice Needed

[z28jimi]

I've never boated north of Norfolk, Virginia. I'm looking at two potential boats, one in the Narragansett, MA area, and the other in the lower end of Long Island. If either works out, it would likely be mid-December before I could leave for Florida. I have two questions I hope someone can help me with. First, is it even feasible to start south from either area at that time of year? Second, it looks like from the Massachusetts area, I'd need to run north of Block Island, down through the Long Island Sound and then offshore to Delaware bay before I could get back inside to the C&D canal to head south on the ICW. Same from Long Island, just starting a bit further south. Do I have that generally correct, or is there another, better route?
Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Boatsb]

There's places around Barnegat and A.C. TO pop in and out but I'm not sure how easy to nav on a big boat. What are you running down?

FYI if you run outside and have the range get a crew and head south on the outside. Running round the clock with a crew will get you out of the frozen north a lot sooner.

 

[Walter P]

About 30 years ago I ran my then Hatteras 43DC from Annapolis to Ft Lauderdale in the winter. I left Annapolis about a week before Christmas and it was cold with the normal winter in the NE/Mid Atlantic which included frozen dock lines, stiff electrical cords and in the beginning we even had to deal with snow on the deck in the AM. Fortunately we were able to run the generator constantly and we used a couple of the small ceramic heaters at the lower station which helped but was still colder than we would have liked. After a couple of days the temps get better and continued all the way to Fla. One other issue was that many of the fuel docks that were normally used by "snow birds" were closed for the season. I would check that out in advance and plan your fueling stops carefully. Of course your range may be better than a 43 DC running @16 K and you will have more flexibility for refueling. We needed to refuel every evening which was a concern until we got well south. Possibly that is not the case with fueling docks being closed for the winter. Even Coinjock was not open at that time. Good luck.. Walt

 

[Walter P]

BTW, I forgot to mention that you should also consider that the conditions in the Ocean this far north are not the best in the winter and you will be exposed at least from Sandy Hook, NJ to Cape May (unless you duck in early at Manasquan or Atlantic City along the way. I would not advise any other inlets at that time of the year unless you have local knowledge. The water temp is also pretty low and the probability of hypothermia in the event of an emergency and you lose the boat, you will not have much time in the water before it's all over. You may want to look into having a full mustang on board for each member of the crew as well as a life raft. Type 1 life preservers are absolutely the minimum as the smaller one's won't be of much help. Things like epirbs etc are a given.

I don't mean to scare anyone but I feel strongly that boating in the NE in the dead of winter is not for the faint of heart or inexperienced with our local conditions. Odds are it will be a pleasant trip but being properly prepared will add to your peace of mind.

Walt

 

[z28jimi]

Doing a quick overview on Google Earth, it looks like it may be possible to come in just south of Manasquan and run inside all the way south to Delaware Bay. It's really twisty-turny, and I haven't looked at that route on any navigational charts yet, but if you know the area, am I correct, or are there areas that I wouldn't be able to pass through? This will be a moderate sized boat, mid-40 foot or so, and less than 4 foot draft. I'd really like to stay out of the open Atlantic as much as possible, even if it adds significant time. If this "inside" route is possible, does anyone have any idea as to typical fuel availability? Being here in Florida, I hadn't even considered that fuel might be hard to find at this time of year.

 

[Walter P]

It can be done on the inside as you noted. You must be very careful not to run aground but with a draft of
less than 4 ft, you should have little or no difficulty. It will take much longer. Years ago one of my friends
did that run and only touched bottom a couple of times, but had no problem otherwise. If you have the
time it probably isn't a bad idea. I personally have never done the inside route from Manasquan to Cape
May but it should be doable. Since you will be at or below displacement speeds for most of it you will
probably going to have plenty of fuel. From Cape May, proceed through the Cape May Canal to the Delaware
Bay and head to the Chesapeake/Delaware canal (C&D). About a third of the way to the Chesapeake there
will be a decent marina (Summit North). Continuing along to the end on the left is Chesapeake City which
has a good marina and some very good restaurants but I don't know how many will be operating in the
winter so call ahead. From there you will proceed south to the Norfolk area which is over 200 miles where
you will pick up Intracoastal marker #1 for the rest of your trip south. The Chesapeake and the Delaware
Bays can be as bad as running outside at times so watch the weather and remember that you may need
to sit at a marina along the way to wait out conditions. Don't forget that more often than not boaters get
in trouble because they leave port in marginal conditions rather than wait a day or more, so allow lots of
extra time just in case and hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.

Walt

 

[BobWaz]

Back in 2001 we brought our 36 trawler (4'draft) from Baltimore to the Hudson River on the inside. Check with the local marinas on depth clearance. At one point we were advised to rub against one of the marker poles while passing. We did so and were still kicking up mud as we passed! Again local knowledge!

 

[Pascal]

I ve never done that trip later than mid october. YOu will really have to wait for a good window and not be afraid to leave the boat somewhere if it is too short.

LIS can be nasty sometimes, although not as bad as the lower delaware. Dont get fooled thinking it s a bay especially when the wind blows against the current. With a shallow draft you can sometimes follow the eastern shore line out of the cape may canal to reduce fetch and stay out of the worst current / wind crap

The jersey ICW is very shallow and poorly maintained. I wouldnt try it without outboards. Esepcially in winter when getting help may prove difficult.

 

[ohiohatteras]

Brought a 36 Hatteras down to Annapolis from Boston years back.....left in Mid November.
Fuel stops were hard to find & few and far between....Almost ran out once....
I think that's going to be a MAJOR issue for you.....

 

[captcrunch]

As a long island boater, most marinas close Christmas week until mid Jan up here and fuel by water in season has gotten slimer post Sandy as a lot of tanks that were near expiration were damaged and fuso services not replaced. You may need to setup fuel delivery by truck

 

[z28jimi]

Walter P, thanks for the detailed suggestions...very helpful. And BobWaz, I certainly agree that local knowledge is a very good thing. I'm not too proud to ask. Going up the middle of next week for an initial look at both boats, and if one of them checks all the right boxes, we'll make an offer. If accepted, I'll go back north for survey and sea trial. This may be pretty interesting since one is already on the hard and the other has been winterized for a wet-slip winter. Wish me luck, and thanks again to everyone for the excellent advice and insight.

 

[jrbrein]

Walter,

Great to see you back!

Jon

 

[rsmith]

I ve never done that trip later than mid october. YOu will really have to wait for a good window and not be afraid to leave the boat somewhere if it is too short.

LIS can be nasty sometimes, although not as bad as the lower delaware. Dont get fooled thinking it s a bay especially when the wind blows against the current. With a shallow draft you can sometimes follow the eastern shore line out of the cape may canal to reduce fetch and stay out of the worst current / wind crap

The jersey ICW is very shallow and poorly maintained. I wouldnt try it without outboards. Esepcially in winter when getting help may prove difficult.

What he said. I grew up on the NJ shore tide fall in most places is nearly 6' many places the markers are sticks or none. If you run aground at hi tide you'll be high and dry at low sitting on the shafts and props.
We left Cape May one year week after thanksgiving headed to Annapolis. A cold front came through and it was blowing 15-25 NW Delaware Bay gets a steep nasty chop. By the time we hit Shaffers on the C&D canal the boat was covered in 2-3" of ice. It was impossible to get up on the bow and my mate had to go up through one of the deck hatches. Once we got off the boat we had a heck of a time getting back on as every grab rail and side decks were covered in ice. One thing to remember too is with water temps that time of year if you fall in the water useful consciousness in minutes. With heavy clothes and deck boots your pretty much done if you fall in.

 

[jpk55]

I'm in Northport, LI and on the long island side there is only 1 fuel dock open in Huntington and none in Oyster Bay. A few marinas are still open, but with reduced hours. Call ahead to be sure.

Jeff Kotler

 

[Cricket]

Do not mess with the intercoastal in NJ. Atlantic City and Cape May are great inlets with really good facilities not far from the inlet. If you get lucky you could save time and run the ocean to Norfolk from Cape May or OCMD, which can save a day. OCMD is easy as long as the wind isn't blowing hard from NE, but you can get stuck there if the weather turns as it's ocean only access. I would build in extra days to be able to wait on the weather if needed. Did a trip from Ocean City NJ to Palm Beach 1st week of December and it was COLD all the way to Charleston.

 

[saltshaker]

Fuel stop will be limited but you’ll have good stops at the bigger inlets. As mentioned don’t attempt to run inside south of Barnegat Inlet. I’d stay outside through all of NJ. The winter winds tend to be westerly and will blow the water out of Barnegat Bay which is shallow to begin with. You won’t find much open in the Bay either and many channel markers will be pulled for the winter. Atlantic Highlands, Cape May and Ocean City Md will all have fuel and dockage. From there you head to Norfolk and there should be more options from there south. Weather will be your toughest obstacle to overcome. Keep in mind that survey and seatrial are harder this time of year as most boats will be winterized in the next few weeks if not already.

 

[Boatsb]

Sounds like a good spring trip if you ask me.

 

[Dan Mapes]

In the Fall of '08 we took our 43' '85 Hatteras M/Y down from Kingston NY. We went in to the Jersey ICW at Manasquan, came out Barnegat, went in Atlantic City, and stayed in until Cape May. Don't do this without tide. I know people that took 45' Island Gypsy through all of this as well. But don't try it without tide. Try opening the GPS data at the following location with Google Earth.

http://www.danmapes.net/Southbound.kmz

 

[bobk]

I would not try this trip in mid winter. If you really want to bring the boat south, truck it to Norfolk and then the rest of the trip will at least be safer. Remember the 'tropics line' is about Vero Beach. I have seen frozen hoses as far south as Jacksonville and friends tell me they have seen ice on the docks in Daytona.

Bobk

 

[z28jimi]

Dan,
thanks for that detailed track. Gives me some good ideas. Much appreciated.

Bobk,
I hear what you're saying. I've actually been looking into the trucking idea for a portion of the trip, because I'm not at all experienced in winter navigation and am smart enough to know my limits. Our home port is Daytona, and while rare, I agree it does get downright nippy here at times. We brought our last boat to Daytona from Norfolk, so that portion of the trip I'd be pretty comfortable with. At least in comparison to the northern stretches.

Going to fly up for an initial look at the two boats in contention this week, and if we like one of them enough to make an offer, we'll see where it goes. Not even sure at this point how we'd do a survey. One is on the hard, and the other is winterized in the water. Hoped to have a boat for the Florida winter, but that might not happen.