Rotted deck under windlass

[Beckytek]

Well I finally started to repair the deck area under the windlass this week. I noticed water dripping from the bolts when it rained. Removed the galley maid and pupit and cut a 12" square hole above the windlass. It took me 2 days to get this far. Each bolt took about 20 to 30 minutes to remove. The windlass must weigh about 200 lbs total, whew. I almost lost the pulpit over the side once I got that free. That must weigh another 200 lbs, whew. The balsa core was soaking wet under most of the area but only a small part was actually rotten. Even soaking wet it was hard to remove and was very solid. As soon as it stops raining I will start with the epoxy fill-in. Figure another day for that, then put it all back together, Whew. Ron

 

[SKYCHENEY]

That's a big job. Luckily, I caught mine in time. When I pulled the windlass for an upgrade to chain, I was able to epoxy all of the exposed core. No rot. I couldn't believe the force it took to break my windlass loose either and then to reinstall, you need 2 people and about 6 hands to do it. And even then you'll be covered with 5200. FWIW, I installed a deck plate access cover in the rear of the pulpit. Now I can look in there at any time and check for leaks. I also store my clutch handle in there.

 

[Genesis]

Yeah, I had to rebuild the entire cored area under the pulpit on mine. I did it from the bottom - it was a bitch of a job, but it will NEVER rot again. Replaced the core with 3/4" marine plywood soaked in CPES, re-laid the bottom layer of roving with TWO layers, all done in epoxy, then injected all the gaps with epoxy, redrilled, and remounted.

While I was at it I took off the pulpit, dug out the plywood shoring and replaced THAT with a hybrid plywood/epoxy/fiberglass laminate structure.

I suspect that if I was to ever manage to fracture the hull somehow that'd be the only part of the boat that wouldn't break. Its literally brick shieshouse solid up there now....... That was a job I do NOT want to have do twice.

 

[spartonboat1]

Re: your pulpit, was or is it solid fiberglass, or is it one of the older units that is a composite of fiberglass over some type of wood. I am about to pull mine and try to do some R&R to it over the winter...so I wonder what awaits me.

Thx,

 

[Genesis]

The pulpit itself is fiberglass, but its not solid. The bottom is open, and typically there is some kind of shoring put between the top of the pulpit and the deck, otherwise the load would be taken only by the corners of the pulpit where the fiberglass bore on the deck - not good. The forward end is actually two pieces, but the factory install had a backing strip epoxied inside the top piece which was then used to fasten both it and the bottom to it - that was still in acceptable condition so I left it pretty much alone.

In my case, the shoring was ordinary plywood - not encapsulated. You know what happened to that.....

All indications were that mine was an OEM install. I posted a SIGNIFICANT rant on this when I found the problem, and a few more as I set about remedying it. It was easily - and by far - the biggest pain in the azz project since I've owned the boat, and one that should never have been necessary.

I know of two other Hatts of similar vintage to mine that has identical problems and neither owner has fixed them yet. There was one that I looked at before I bought mine that had a VERY advanced version of my problem, which I caught at MY inspection and removed the boat from consideration. In my case I did not catch it during my inspection nor did the surveyor when I bought it, as the extent at the time of the soft core was confined to directly under the windlass, where it was impossible to detect by sounding. Four years later it was was approximately a 2x3' area, which I discovered when I went to pull the windlass itself as I wanted to go through it and insure that it was ok over the winter - I got an ugly surprise.

While I had my pulpit off I sanded it clean and repainted it as well; I couldn't shoot it (no place to do it) so it got brushed with Brightsides. Turned out ok - not perfect, but ok, although I've already dug up the paint a bit from normal anchoring duty. On the other hand recoating Brightsides is simple.

I also removed the teak inlays (they were BADLY deteriorated) and left the foot channels alone; less wood to deal with.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

I converted our Galley Maid unit to one with the addition of a chain gypsy. Ours was a real bitch to remove also. The caulk had that monster firmly planted. I removed the motor, ugh! Next we took crowbars and after removing the bolts, finally got the gearbox to rotate slightly. 3 hours later the monster was in my lap and I was crammed into the bow locker. I inspected everything carefully and found no water intrusion. Now this boat is in the great lakes and is stored inside for 6 months. I am sure that all helps. When I bored the hole through the teak strips, bow pulpit, and finally the cored deck, I was amased to find no voids and no water damage of any kind. The pulpit was solid and then we went through the cored deck. I epoxied the hole and implanted a PVC tube that filled the hole completly. We mounted the chain pipe on the teak and over the hole. We have 130 ft. of 5/16 grade 30 chain. It works great and the chain pipe takes and gives the chain with no help.

 

[Genesis]

BTW, here's a trick to get these beasts out.

If you have the new style (isolated gearcase) remove the motor. If not, you'll get a mess, but should remove the motor anyway.

Remove the bolts from the bottom (4), and place something reasonably soft under the gearbox (e.g. stacks of life jackets, etc) DO NOT be under the gearcase when you're doing this!

Remove the top nut, the spin-on top to the capstan, the capstan, the wildcat (if so equipped) and both keys. Also remove the circlip and flat washer shielding the top O-ring (they'll get damaged otherwise) Spray the junction between the deck plate and windlass liberally with PB Blaster and allow to soak for a few hours.

Get yourself a piece of galvanized 1-1/2" pipe threaded on one end and a pipe cap. Install cap. Approximately 12" is required - it must be tall enough to stand proud over the shaft of the windlass. IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT THE PIPE CAP DOES NOT TOUCH THE TOP OF THE WINDLASS SHAFT!

Place pipe over the shaft. You must insure that it bears on the INSIDE boss of the windlass gearcase. The OUTSIDE boss is the trim ring. You must also INSURE that it does NOT reach the OD of the O-ring seal surface (you'll destroy it if it does!) There is enough room to insure that the proper place
takes the stress of what's to come - you just have to position it carefully.

Take a small sledge - a handheld model, not the big arms-length ones. Using it, drive the windlass down by striking the top of the pipe cap. It will drop free into the chain locker. Note that you may have to hit it HARD.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

That's how I got mine out, but I DID need the big arm's length hammer. And even then it took numberous swings to break it free.

 

[Genesis]

Oh I had to hit it HARD - more than once - but the smaller sledge version - at full arm extension - did the job.

As long as its moving, its working. You don't have to kill the thing with the first blow.

 

[captddis]

Mine needed the sawzall to remove.

 

[Beckytek]

I used the pipe and hammer method to remove the windlass last year. I had to replace the bottom casting that holds the gear train. The casting was broken when I bought the boat and all the oil leaked out. The insides were a mass of rust. I bought all the necessary parts to repair it from Galley Maid for around $1000. After rebuilding and reinstalling, it worked great since. One thing I didn't do was check the deck for rot. I never even thought about it, until I read about the problem on this site. So now I get to take it out again this year to repair the deck. The windlass came right out this time as soon as I removed the bolts, no hammering. Still waiting for better weather to do the epoxying. I hope this is the last time I have to do this. I'm too old to be doing this stuff. Ron

 

[doc g]

Does anyone know what is under the teak inlay on these older (1981) pulpits ?
Is the teak laid over and into a fiberglass channel that is built into the pulpit itself? My teak is getting water intrusion from the aft side due to a chain pipe installation blocking the drainage...................Pat

 

[Genesis]

Yep. Its fiberglass, if its like mine ('85), and I bet it is.

You'll have fun cleaning it up. It was a royal pain of a job.....

 

[SKYCHENEY]

When I drilled for my chain pipe, I thought I would never get through it. First, was the 3/8" teak, then 3/8" fiberglass, then 1/2" aluminum, then 1/4" fiberglass. That was just the pulpit. Then I had to drill through the deck. Once the hole was drilled, I sleeved it with a piece of 2" PVC pipe that was covered in 5200. It will never come out and it should never allow water to get between the pulpit and deck.

 

[Genesis]

That's not how it will get in there.

I studied this IN DEPTH when I had mine apart.

Water gets in between the deck and pulpit at the forward end under driving seas. You can caulk until you're blue in the face, you won't stop it all.

I took a different approach this time around.

I drilled RELIEF HOLES at the forward and aft end of the pulpit. Then I made damn sure that both the underside of the pulpit (the shoring) and the deck penetrations were SEALED, and ran UV-stabilized 4200 down all the holes before putting it together.

Thus, WHEN it gets wet underneath (not if) the water can get out and it can dry out, and neither deck coring or pulpit shoring can rot, since its all encapsulated.

There's no way you will prevent it from getting wet between the pulpit and deck, given the design. Its simply impossible, given the design.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

You are probably right. That's why after sealing all of the holes through the deck, I also added a removable deck plate fitting in the rear of the pulpit. I can open it up to check in there for moisture. And, if there is some, I can dry it out before it causes any problems. It's nice to be able to know what it looks like between the pulpit and deck. I thought of the this after seeing some Hatts with a hinged door added at the rear slope of the pulpit.

 

[Genesis]

Not a bad idea at all.

I too added a piece of PVC pipe as the rode "spillway", and 5200'd it in place once the holes were drilled and the penetrations sealed with epoxy.... the original installer just painted (!) over the penetrations.

You know what happens when you do that, right?