Robertson AP20 NEMA Problem

[Pete]

I decided to update my PC based navigation system software. Been four years since I did this the prior time. Purchased Maptech Chart Navigator Pro (CNP) through Defender. Installed it on my existing hardware that has not changed in 8 years and has run The Capn and Nobeltec without a problem, early years using The Capn and Nobeltec most recently. The hardware setup is a Northstar 941X DGPS, feeding an IBM Thinkpad Laptop, driving a Robertson AP20 autopilot. Decided to change to get software that supports the NOAA Raster and Vector charts.

Installed everything and the GPS to PC link works great. My problem is the NEMA sentences being sent to the AP20 are not exactly what the AP20 wants. That is my conclusion based on playing around with different sentence combinations, transmit frequency, unit ID's and anything else that can be modified using the software. The end result that I am unable to correct is, the autopilot will not recognize any input if it is powered up before you start (CNP). If you power up the AP20 after CNP is up with a route activated, once in a while it will read some input but 98% of the time it states "no valid input on port". I have yet to see a pattern to when it communicates and when it fails. I just turn it on and off and sooner or later it detects some NEMA data. And just to repeat, Nobeltec still runs just fine.

My conclusion is I have an 8 year old AP20 that does not like something about the NEMA 0183 sentences being supplied by a 2008 software product. But, I lack knowledge of NEMA 0183, and its history. There must be changes through time, I think?? Anyone help me out with this problem. BTW, I tried Maptech support and did not make any progress. Have yet to find a support number for Robertson, could use help with that also. Thanks

Pete

 

[captddis]

Have recently hooked a new Garmin 4212 up to an existing Simrad and the 0183 protocal worked fine. It does seem not to like your computer. Good luck.

Simrads # is 800 426 5565 or 425 778 8821. They are good at helping solve tech problems.

 

[REBrueckner]

I find this kind of problem is a pain to solve unless you work at them often.

Try reading the thread "DSC Hookup not working" (on page two here at the moment) for some hints about NEMA+ and NEMA- and grounds.

NEMA 0183 is a (fixed) standard protocol for standard communication between devices...it does not change from year to year....I don't know enough about all the variables to offer a direct likely solution but I would check each device to be sure the proper protocol (NEMA 0183) is selected, be sure your connections are good, and be sure you have a ground on the NEMA connection where needed..a floating ground, meaning a small varying voltage where there should be 0 voltage, might cause a problem which varies with time and device start up order as you experience.

If you don't get a solution which works from here go to Trawlers and Trawlering List at
http://www.trawlersandtrawlering.com/forums/trawlerlist.html
You'll have to sign up to post, but it's free...

There are software experts there who work in the business...and will likely be able to help.

 

[Brian Degulis]

When setting up my Nobeltec software I remeber have to change something in the sentences for the Robertson autopilot. I other words there was something diffrent about the sentences required for Robertson. Simrad took over Robertson they have a support # you can find it on line or call a dealer I think they will be able to tell you the sentences required.

Brian

 

[Pete]

Thanks for the suggestions. I will try the trawler list. I too went through the Simrad unique implementation of the BOD sentence. This is the reason I switched from The Capn to Nobeltec. The Capn could not adjust to the needs of the Simrad AP20, but Nobeltec did have an option. And I have been very pleased with the Nobeltec product. It is their decision to withdraw support for NOAA vector charts that has driven me to another product.

Pete

 

[REBrueckner]

I, too, found SIMRAD technicians EXCELLENT when I installed a new AP 22 aboard my boat about 9 years ago...and also when my RPU motor failed about three years ago....they told me right away what probably happened before I even described symptoms....

 

[DeeRow]

I was talking with a local marine electronics installer this morning and they were complaining that Simrad tech support has gone downhill since they were acquired. He could not remember who boaught them. He said that they rarely get a live tech online and only allow a short phone message.

Mark

 

[Pete]

Thankfully, this AM I had a long conversation with one of the SIMRAD support techs in Washington state and he was very knowledgeable and helpful. He stayed on the line with me for about 20 minutes, even when my GPS would not come on line. I give them an A, at least for my sample of 1. BTW, the GPS is OK. The problem is I am only about 1 mile, as the bird flies, from the Norfolk Naval Fleet and they love to mess with the GPS signals. Today I was doing 4.5 knots while still tied to the dock ! ! ! This afternoon all is normal again.

Pete

 

[DeeRow]

Thankfully, this AM I had a long conversation with one of the SIMRAD support techs in Washington state and he was very knowledgeable and helpful. He stayed on the line with me for about 20 minutes, even when my GPS would not come on line. I give them an A, at least for my sample of 1. BTW, the GPS is OK. The problem is I am only about 1 mile, as the bird flies, from the Norfolk Naval Fleet and they love to mess with the GPS signals. Today I was doing 4.5 knots while still tied to the dock ! ! ! This afternoon all is normal again.

Pete

So...
Were you able to fix the problem?
Or did the GPS issue prevent you from working on it?

Mark

 

[Pete]

The plan coming out of the call was to update the firmware in my 8 year old J300X junction box and both AP20 control heads. Those EPROM parts are coming in the mail. He then asked that I install those and, gave me instructions on how to save my current parameter settings to avoid having to do another sea trial setup, and asked that I call him back when I get to that point. The tech gave me his name and direct extension. So, the short answer is no, the problem is not solved, but not sure what more I can expect at this time.

Thinking ahead to how things might get worse, as they usually do when I tear into something, today Nobeltec works great, CNP doesn't. When I update, what if CNP still doesn't work and Nobeltec stops working!! Have to get the old EPROMS out very carefully and hope I can back up, if necessary. Hope the SIMRAD programmers thought about this scenario?

Pete

 

[jmeis]

Simrad Robertson AP20 Problem

Hello, I am new in your forum.
I have an AP20 and it has problem with the direction. If I turn on in auto mode then turn to completeright or to the complete left. My boat have two Arneson.
Can you help me please?

Thanks in advance

John

 

[Canuck Dennis]

Try the following....
wing sentences in the NMEA0183 RS422 format at 4800 BAUD.

APB
BOD
BWC
GLL
RMC
XTE

 

[Carolinaflare]

Allthough NMEA 0183 is a "standard" there are different software versions between years.
Possibly the new EPROM updates they are sending you for your jbox will work.
Sometimes equipment does not like receiving too many sentences . They, like my wife have selective hearing! If you overload with too much data (talker) they will stop listening.

Have you tried connecting the RX - of the ap to ground (shield of the cable that actually connects to your laptop) .
An hooking the RX+ directly to your laptops serial port ( pin 3) of a db 9 connector. ?
Hope this helps