Replacing the starter bank

[Bill Root]

It's beginning to look like it's getting close to the time when I will need to replace the starting battery bank so I'm looking for recommendations for brands. The current Deka 8V195's have been in there over three years, and although they will still take a charge, they don't hold it very long.

I replaced the house bank about a year ago with the Rolls HHG 25's. I have been less than impressed with their service and warranty procedures based on a problem I had beginning before Thanksgiving that just got resolved yesterday. I'll do a separate post about that. At any rate, I want to avoid Rolls for the starting bank. Searching on line, the only 8 volt marine battery supplier I can find other than Rolls is Deka. Are there any other brands that anyone can recommend?

As always, thanks for your advice.

 

[Boatsb]

The 8v195 is not the right battery and I have posted before they have problems. The 819 is the right battery.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Bill, Trojan Battery Co also make 8volt batteries. Whether they are the size you need is something apart from that, but they do make them. They are golf cart batteries, which means they are rated for repeated deep discharges. You can find them on their web site.

 

[MikeP]

Bill,

I assume all the various circuits associated with the batts/charging/discharging have been checked to ensure the problems with the Rolls and the Dekkas ARE, in fact, battery issues and not wiring/circucit/charger issues?

I have had no problems with the Dekka 195s and they have done a fine job so far on my 53 in all banks going on 4 years now and I would replace them with the same batts when the time comes. But as, noted by boatsb, I have seen some complaints re them. Perhaps my combined battery banks helps since the banks have never gone below 80% charged since I combined them some years ago.

 

[Boatsb]

Bill,

I assume all the various circuits associated with the batts/charging/discharging have been checked to ensure the problems with the Rolls and the Dekkas ARE, in fact, battery issues and not wiring/circucit/charger issues?

I have had no problems with the Dekka 195s and they have done a fine job so far on my 53 in all banks going on 4 years now and I would replace them with the same batts when the time comes. But as, noted by boatsb, I have seen some complaints re them. Perhaps my combined battery banks helps since the banks have never gone below 80% charged since I combined them some years ago.

Why would you combine both banks. 1 bad battery and the whole boat is dead in the water.

there is a reason they are separate and redundant.

 

[Canuck Dennis]

Keep them separate, I was on the hook one night and forgot to turn of the e/r lights, one bank was too low to turn the engine over...lucky the other side was ok...

 

[Bill Root]

Scott: Thanks for the reply. You do seem to be knowledgeable about these things. I did do a search before I posted here and saw your comments about the 819's. Having said that, when I had the 8V195 starting batteries put in in 2010 I used American Battery in Ft. Lauderdale. They recommended the 195's over the 819's because the 195's have a higher cranking amp rating. Their reasoning was that since the starboard bank was used only for starting the starboard engine, the higher cranking capability was more important than the greater deep cycle capability of the 819's.

Mike: I will post about the Rolls problem later today. The questions you asked are the same ones I have. I'm, just not sure where to start.

 

[carolinacoast]

I have 2 banks of 819 deka batts. This will be the 4th season, and still okay. The outback 3232 has made a huge difference in battery life for me. Only got 2.5 years last time. Mine are combined also, but I have a separate start battery for my #2 gen. My $.02.

I was able to get direct service from a Deka route truck (newer batteries-no shipping cost) to the marina using West Marine and a port supply order from the guy I hired to do the actual lifting. They took the cores also. We just scheduled it around their route schedule. I don't recall the pricing, but it was definitely less than DC battery after shipping. Maybe worth considering.

 

[MikeP]

Combining banks pros/cons has been well covered in a lot of past posts. It works great for OUR use of the boat, has for 6+ years, and I would not consider de-combining them.

HOWEVER, despite the fact that we have never managed to deplete the batts below 80% charge while anchoring out, IF we did not have a separate battery to start the genny, I would not have combined them. But since we have a NL 16KW genny with a 12V starter, the genny has it's own battery which has nothing to do with the boat's 32V DC system. So even if we somehow depleted the 32v system to the point where it could not start the mains, the genny can still be started and charge the batts.

A while back the boat was on the hard for 36 hours with the batts supplying power through the Outback inverter to the fridge and other small loads and when the boat was dropped back in the water the starters spun/engines fired as briskly as they do under "normal" conditions.

Electrically, one large bank is more efficient than two smaller banks so better charging/battery life is normal. Yes, one bad batt or cell COULD destroy all the batts instead of half of them so that's something to consider. OTOH, it doesn't happen overnight and if you have some sort of battery charging monitor, occasionally checking the readout will reveal abnormal charging patterns/voltage. I had a dead cell in one of our last set of 819s that was causing just such an overcharge but none of the other batts were adversely affected. To that point there was no functional indication that there was a problem. That's another advantage of one large bank - it can absorb faults like a bad cell much better since the "load" is spread over more batteries.

I certainly understand that there are good reasons NOT to combine the banks. The configuration of the boat's elec system and how the boat is used, IMO, dictates whether combining the banks is beneficial or not. For us it certainly is; for others, it may not be.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Going on 8 years on my Rolls. I am surprised you had problems. I know a guy here that had one cell die on a Rolls at 3YO and they just sent him a whole new battery free of charge. He didn't even have to pay the shipping.

As others have stated, the charger has quite a bit to do with battery life. I have my Outback programmed per what the Rolls tech specified.

Maintenance also affects life. Keep your water at the proper levels and only use distilled. Although with the Outback charging, I only have to add water about 3X per year.

 

[MikeP]

Totally concur with what Sky said, and to emphasize one point, it's a great idea to get the battery maker's specific charge voltage recommendations for the various charge stages - bulk, absorption, and float - and set the charger to deliver those specific voltages. The Outback inverter/charger (with "Mate") can do that; I assume other smart chargers can do the same.

 

[Bill Root]

At the end of the day, Rolls did replace the battery with the bad cell free of charge; it just took almost two months and an angry phone call to Rolls direct to get it done. I'll try to get a post of the specifics out today.

 

[GJH]

Bill, I had the same set up you do, 195's as the starboard starting bank, HHG25's on the port for start/house. Was very happy with that set up. The 195's had three and a half years on them when I sold the boat last month and were still going very strong and tested out fine on survey. I used the boat year around so they got plenty of use. My charger was a Sentry which did a very good job of maintaining them and the Rolls. If and when the time came to change them out, I was considering replacement with the Rolls equivalent, which they call a "Bertram" form factor but are the same physical size as the 195, still with a few less cranking amps but much more deep cycle capacity (seeing as how they weigh 40% more). I always felt I was cheating a little with the 195's but boy they sure spun the 8v82's nicely. I would never consider using golf carts as a starting battery; there's a reason it s hard to even find CCA ratings for them.

 

[Bill Root]

Thanks, George.

 

[Bill Root]

Thanks, George

 

[LARRY VALENTINE]

It's beginning to look like it's getting close to the time when I will need to replace the starting battery bank so I'm looking for recommendations for brands. The current Deka 8V195's have been in there over three years, and although they will still take a charge, they don't hold it very long.

I replaced the house bank about a year ago with the Rolls HHG 25's. I have been less than impressed with their service and warranty procedures based on a problem I had beginning before Thanksgiving that just got resolved yesterday. I'll do a separate post about that. At any rate, I want to avoid Rolls for the starting bank. Searching on line, the only 8 volt marine battery supplier I can find other than Rolls is Deka. Are there any other brands that anyone can recommend?

As always, thanks for your advice.

Go to Sams club and get some 8v golf cart batteries. They take half the room of my previous monsters ,cost much much less and start great for my 6V92TAs. Larry V.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I'm not a fan of the golf cart battery for this application. It may work fine for a dedicated inverter bank as they are designed for deep cycle applications, but for a start bank, I think they will most likely fail prematurely. You may get lucky, if you live in a warm climate and your boat stays at the dock most of time, but the out rush of amperage to start a cold diesel engine is just going to create too much heat in a battery that is not designed for that. Melted terminals or warped plates will probably be the eventual outcome.

 

[GJH]

I'm not a fan of the golf cart battery for this application. It may work fine for a dedicated inverter bank as they are designed for deep cycle applications, but for a start bank, I think they will most likely fail prematurely. You may get lucky, if you live in a warm climate and your boat stays at the dock most of time, but the out rush of amperage to start a cold diesel engine is just going to create too much heat in a battery that is not designed for that. Melted terminals or warped plates will probably be the eventual outcome.

I'm with you Sky. There's a reason you seldom if ever find cranking amp specs on golf cart batteries. It was never even a moment's consideration for me when I changed over my two banks a s described. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[Bill Root]

This battery charger search has been an adventure. I've learned way more about batteries, chargers and charging systems than I ever wanted to know.

There is a lot of bad information and mis-information out there, so getting to the true facts can be a challenge. The small number of companies actually making 32V chargers doesn't help, either.
The choices I could find were limited to LaMarche and Charles for the traditional two stage chargers like the original equipment chargers in our older boats, Sentry, Newmar and Analytic for the more modern three stage chargers.

At the end of the day I chose the Analytic BAC1000 charger because it had the most features that were important to the way we run our boat, their tech support people were definitely the best to deal with of all the brands, and they have by far the best warranty for a three stage charger. Downside is that it doesn't have a fancy stainless steel case and it takes three weeks to have one made and shipped.

Thanks to everyone who provided insights and suggestions. You were all very helpful.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Bill,
I opted for the optional digital readout on my Analytic. I think it is about $100 more but you can see the voltage and amp draw on each bank. I think it's worth it.