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Replacing main engine seacocks

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Seapig100

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  1. OWNER - I own a Hatteras Yacht
Hatteras Model
45' CONVERTIBLE-Series I (1968 - 1975)
I am looking for the size of the thru hulls and seacocks on the main engines on my 1969 45c it has 8-71 naturals. I plan on replacing them in the next few weeks. I would also appreciate any advice on the job also. Thanks in advance.
 
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Probably two inches to three inches. Use Groco, Conbraco or Apollo. Use made in USA, no import stuff. Backing plates and through-bolting the flanges is very important/. Use 4200 to seal. Be aware of the difference between NPT and NPS threads and don't mix them. The right ones are cast silicon bronze with stainless ball valves. If you want to fit a strainer, it should be separate and supported sturdily; you will need a lot of bronze hose barbs to hook up all the hoses. Double clamp everything with AWAB clamps. Use the best hose you can buy, I have found Vetus to be the best so far.
 
Why are you replacing them?
 
They are frozen open and I have made several attempts to get them moving again with no luck. I am planning on storing in the water next winter and I need all my seacocks to be in good working order. There are no sea strainers on the mains and I would like to do this at the same time. And last but certainly not least the plumbing from the seacocks to the engines is not up to marine standards and it bothers me every time I look at it. There is copper tubing attaching the seacock to the hose and copper tubing being used to create a 90 degree bend. And all this is in 4 inch hose to accommodate the tubing. The fittings at the engine is smaller so the previous owner just clamped down the hose to fit the engine and that is stressing the hose.I figure it’s going to cost me about 3500 bucks to change all the seacocks, IMO it’s money well spent.
 
Frozen seacocks are common. My boat surveyed frozen main seacocks. They now open and close with just a finger or two. I was able to bring mine back in the water. You may not want to try. But if you do, I’ll be glad to explain what worked for me.
 
They are frozen open and I have made several attempts to get them moving again with no luck. I am planning on storing in the water next winter and I need all my seacocks to be in good working order. There are no sea strainers on the mains and I would like to do this at the same time. And last but certainly not least the plumbing from the seacocks to the engines is not up to marine standards and it bothers me every time I look at it. There is copper tubing attaching the seacock to the hose and copper tubing being used to create a 90 degree bend. And all this is in 4 inch hose to accommodate the tubing. The fittings at the engine is smaller so the previous owner just clamped down the hose to fit the engine and that is stressing the hose.I figure it’s going to cost me about 3500 bucks to change all the seacocks, IMO it’s money well spent.

Sounds like you are doing this work for all the right reasons. As RAC said, you might be able to get the current ones moving, which solves part of the problem. You would still need to correct all the plumbing, as you pointed out. That may turn out to be the main issue if you can get the sea valves to open and close. You may not need to replace them.

If you look at some of RACs posts on his engine room, you will get an idea of the quality of work he expects from himself and on his boat. I would feel safe taking his suggestions.

The best source I have found for this kind of hardware is Groco here in MD. (now, part of this is that they are local to me and they make everything here in the USA, although their actual foundry is in PA- but it isn't overseas) Their ARG series strainers are very good. I have several of them and they are very good about keeping spares and gaskets etc for all their products, old and new, in stock. I have a Groco FW system pump, for example, that probably has fifteen years on it, now.
 
Sounds like you are doing this work for all the right reasons. As RAC said, you might be able to get the current ones moving, which solves part of the problem. You would still need to correct all the plumbing, as you pointed out. That may turn out to be the main issue if you can get the sea valves to open and close. You may not need to replace them.

If you look at some of RACs posts on his engine room, you will get an idea of the quality of work he expects from himself and on his boat. I would feel safe taking his suggestions.

The best source I have found for this kind of hardware is Groco here in MD. (now, part of this is that they are local to me and they make everything here in the USA, although their actual foundry is in PA- but it isn't overseas) Their ARG series strainers are very good. I have several of them and they are very good about keeping spares and gaskets etc for all their products, old and new, in stock. I have a Groco FW system pump, for example, that probably has fifteen years on it, now.
Jim, thanks for the kind words. Let me address the post and your PM together here.

First, freeing a stuck seacock won't be fast. But it is a lot cheaper than replacements.

Spray penetrating oil on the valve assembly copiously and often--maybe every time you pass by for days. Also spray oil on the freeze/drain plug. Also, disconnect the hose from the seacock to the pump at the pump. Stuff a rag down the hose until you feel it at the seacock. Pour in full concentrate phosphoric acid or CLR. The rag helps stem the flow of the acid out the open seacock. Let this stand, and continually refresh solution. Continue oiling valve assembly. As an alternative, a diver can remove the screen and stuff the intake which is a good route. But you may not be able to fully close the seacock until the intake is cleared.

If necessary, make a cheater about a foot in length. Being careful not to round off the valve stem, work the handle back and forth. It may not move for the first few tries (or days). But, most of what you're doing doesn't take much time at any one session. Use a brass hammer and whack the assembly pretty good at anytime during the process. I thought an orbital sandy was a useful tool on helping to free things up.

After a time, the seacock will move back and forth a bit. Don't trying force it. Using a coat hanger, pull the rag out. Now, you can use a torch and heat the seacock. It's pretty massive, so you shouldn't worry about melting your boat. Work the heat all around the body; it'll take a while. Go the whip (hammer). You can wet the base of the seacock and watch for signs of heat rapidly evaporating the moisture as a safety check. Re-oil when it cools down.

Once the seacock is about halfway closed, remove the freeze plug and screw in a zerk fitting. Shoot some grease in the assembly. Most of the grease will go in the water until the seacock is completely closed. Then, grease it well.

Also, once the seacock is closed, add CLR or about a 50/50 mix of phosphoric and let stand overnight. I think you will be surprised at how easy the valve will open and close after a day or two. Exercise regularly and it should become lighter and lighter to the touch.

Seems like a lot of work, but it's really just a couple of hours total spread over time. Good luck.
 
I was able to spin new valves on my existing thru hulls saved a lot of money and time.
 

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Look at the picture
 

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that does not look like a proper seacock. it should have a flange mounted to the bottom of the boat and the thru hull screwed into it from outside of the boat then a scoop or mounted over that
 
When I had my last survey on the 43 DC in Florida, the main engine seacocks were frozen open, I asked the surveyor if adding a bronze ball valve on top of the existing seacoCk would be acceptable, he said yes go for it just be sure there is a bronze nipple in between. YMMV
 
Key thing is remembering not to mix NPT and NPS, because it makes an installation that isn't secure.
 
I was at the boat today and it looks like the seacocks have a female coupling threaded onto the valve. I am going to try and spin off the coupling and add a new valve onto the existing one. If anyone objects to this idea can you please explain your reasoning.
 
Last try here.

Fix it right or stop asking for acceptance of your shortcuts.

If I was to look at the boat with valves on the valves after it sank I'd have to conclude it was a work around or more politically incorrectly a rigg. Id wonder what else was rigged and was that a cause of the failure.

Fix it right. Buy a pair of seackcocks and install them the right way.
 
Are you sure that you don’t have the seacocks with the tapered valve in them. If it has a nut across from the handle loosen the nut and strike it with a hammer using a block of wood to protect the threads. If they aren’t carry on with the plan to add a valve to the present seacock
 
I believe they are tapered. I tried to pop them loose using a socket over the threads and backing the nut off. This created a puller of sorts and it did not budge. It will be difficult to strick it cleanly with a hammer because of the engine rails. I am willing to give this another opportunity just not sure I am going about it the right way.
 
What I think Scott is trying to say is this:
There is ONE right way to do this. NPS and NPT threads cannot be mixed in this installation, because although they will screw in a few turns, it is NOT ENOUGH to make a secure and tight installation. These parts of boats are subjected to considerable stress and if they fail, your boat sinks. You would be far better to take everything out of the boat and rebuild with new USA-made hardware. Your life and the lives of your passengers depend on it.

The proper method is a seacock, not a ball valve, mounted in the hull using a backing plate AND the through-bolts that secure the flange. Into that valve is threaded a through-hull, which may need to be trimmed in length so that it doesn't bottom out in the sea valve. Use 4200 caulking and make sure all the mating surfaces are clean of grit and oil before assembling everything. Dry-fit all the bits and pieces before final assembly. Final assembly is a two-man job- the installation will try to twist as you secure it, so it has to be held to make sure it stays oriented properly.

Once the seacock and through-hull are in place and the caulking has set up, you can add the rest of the plumbing to the engine cooling system. If you are going to use a strainer, mount it separately; full strainers weigh a lot and will stress the valve and through-hull in a way you don't want. Use all bronze parts, never brass, double-clamp everything (AWAB clamps!) and use the best hose you can (Vetus, in my experience, is better than anything else) These installations are not cheap. But this is one area of a boat in which you should not skimp or try to reduce costs. Any part of a boat in which you have something penetrating the hull should be done exactly to standard. Not only is the boat safer, but if you do it any other way, and there is a disaster and claim, insurance may decline to pay any claim because the installation was not done correctly- even if it can be argued that the disdaster may not have occurred because of the installation.

Look through the Groco catalong on line, also Conbraco and Apollo. I believe all those brands are made in USA. Also Buck Algonquin and Wilcox-Crittenden. You should be able to find all you need between all those vendors.

And remember, NEVER mix NPT and NPS threads. You cannot do a proper install in that fashion. It cannot be done.

Boats sink for one reason and one reason only. They sink because water gets inside them. Make sure it stays outside the boat.
 
Thanks for the replies, my initial thought was to replace it all and be done with it. If I can free the current valve I will correct the rest of the plumbing. If I can’t free them I am going to just start over with all new parts.
 

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