Repaint Planning

[Pete]

I am going to have to bite the repaint bullet in the next 12 months; next winter's project. Going to have it done by a yard. Want it looking as close to new as they can get it. Meanwhile I will try to get all the rechrome, teak, fairing blocks, etc. in order.

The yard I am considering likes Alexseal. They claim today's Imron is not the same paint that Hatteras used, as the VOC requirements by government has forced major reformulation. BTW, at the FLIBS, Dupont had a booth in the convention center and was talking about their new version of Imron formulated specifically for boats. I was told that it is only available in a couple of shades of white and the color is factory pre mixed. When pressed, the yard mentioned orange peel is the problem they encounter most often with Imron. Up until a couple of years ago, they did mostly Awlgrip. They have no specific complaints about the product, just saying that Alexseal is the best product in their opinion. They also point to Hatteras as using Alexseal on all their new boats. From reading literature, Alexseal sounds good, as I like a paint that you can buff and spot repair.

Now I am searching for real life experience and advice on Alexseal. Has anyone used it and if so what do you think? Any and all advice would be appreciated. Also, a rather tender subject, what yards have done great jobs for boat owners and which should be off my list for consideration? PM responses on the yards to avoid would be fine with me. My limits on yards is Norfolk to south Florida. Much prefer indoor painting.

Thanks

Pete

 

[REBrueckner]

What prompts the repaint? If it's just general age and surface dullness and you haven't polished, maybe you can bring back the surface. I use StarBright (liquid) boat polish twice a year, applied by hand to the hull, and it really keeps a nice shine on otherwise rather dull paint. I don't do roofs as they get too slippery.

On the other hand, if you have some spots peeling and subsurface imperfections causing surface changes, there's not much you can do from the surface. And unless the underlying imperfections are corrected, the new paint will be a temporary cover up and big disappointment. Preparation is everything. The nice thing is: most all of this is cosmetic, unlike wood boats where paint integrity is critical to protect wood.

On my 1972 YF before I repainted decks myself by hand I had a few dozen "chips" out of the old deck paint...in the old non skid pattern...scattered around, no apparent cause, almost all on the forward deck. A few would appear each year, not surprising on an older boat. I carefully wire brushed each, puttied, sanded, etc...It's now three years later and this summer I noticed the first new little chip...like something with a sharp protrusion dropped on the deck... It appears to be a new one, not an old one reappearing, but I can't be sure. So maybe it's a good idea to check with any yard you choose and see if how they handle the non skid pattern...if you have that...You don't want an ice skating like surface when it's all new and shiny!!!

Finally, you may want to consider just redoing,for example, decks, if that's where current imperfections reside. Horizontal surfaces usually deterioriate the fastest...of course if you really want your baby looking likle new, likely a partial repaint won't be the right solution for you.

Good luck....

 

[REBrueckner]

I forgot to add: Just before whatever repainting you finally contract, consider taking pictures of the imperfections...that way if they have any subsequent effect on the new job, you'll have a record for reference. An old surface that has remained intact will likely stay that way; it's the currently troublesome spots that may cause future consternation.

 

[SeaEric]

The changes in the VOC requirements have affected all coatings, not just Imron. Nothing is like we remember from the "old days". My recent experience with painting my hull 2 years ago and my deck and cabins this summer is with Awlgrip. I share your concern on the spot-repairability. I'm told that AwlCraft 2000 is fixable. Thats what is on my hull. The guy who did my deck and cabins used Awlgrip, rolled and tipped. It looks spectacular. He's just a guy with a truck and tools, and 2 helpers. Will be happy to share his info, but he is not a yard. He works between Annapolis and Ft Lauderdale.

As far as Alexseal, I have no knowledge or experience. I will be anxious to hear others' comments.

 

[ThirdHatt]

Pete, first of all CONGRATS! It's a dream come true to have your boat professionally painted, but that yard is pulling your leg. As far as I know, Dupont Imron is still available in a whole palette of colors and they will mix any color you want. I have several friends with wooden boats that they've owned since the 1960's and they use Imron to repaint their hulls every 10 yrs or so as they do it themselves. They swear by Imron and I see why, although they agree that the Awlgrip on my hull does shine better. Hatteras is no longer using Imron, that part is correct but they now use Awlgrip not Alexseal.

You should look at Alwcraft 2000 which is Awlgrip's buffable product. There are many quality coatings out there (PPG, Sterling, etc) to consider but most of the reputable builders of medium to large yachts these days use Awlgrip products exclusively.

Disclaimer: I am biased because I just got my boat back a week ago from a complete Awlgrip spray job in a paint booth and I am still pinching myself!

The yard tried to convince me to use Awlcraft 2000 so that it can be buffed, but I think often the yards use it is a crutch for them to do lesser quality work because they know it can be buffed/repaired. They don't have to worry about runs or trash in the paint that way. They have to really work hard to get Awlgrip right, but when they do there is nothing that can match the shine or durability. For the kind of money they charge for this kind of work, I don't mind making them work hard on my boat because I worked hard for the money to pay them!

GOOD LUCK!

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I don't want to spread something around that may not be true, but you know, you hear things and you just aren't sure as to the reliability of the info. Anyway, I had heard that Alexseal is actually the old Imron formula. Whoever said that may just be confused because it has many of the same properties of the old Imron. I don't know, but it may be worth checking out.

Maybe the stuff hasn't changed at all. Right now, I have a PH door at my local heavy equipment dealer for a repaint. All they shoot on trucks and construction equipment is Imron. They have a huge building just for painting and they paint anything, military equipment, trucks, dozers, excavators, buses, etc. I will ask them about the paint as they have a state of the art facility with all of the air filtration equipment, etc.

I just hope they actually use my paint code and don't send my door back in CAT yellow

 

[Paul45c]

Is there a way to tell which paint you actually have? My boat's a 1982, and I can certainly see evidence where it's been repainted at least once. I've got touchup work to do on some sections and would love to know what to use to match the existing paint.

 

[captddis]

The Imron of today has no where the durability of the old Imron. I am not a fan of Awlcraft, It does not have the shine or hardness and it can easily be marred by fenders. They even want you to use their expensive soap to wash. Use the wrong cleaner once on it and it is done.
I think the Sterling has the best shine and brushes better, But Awlgrip is very very close and their cream color is dead on for the Hatt off white. I have heard some good reviews about Alexseal. I would find a well regarded painter and use what he likes and is used to working with. Also I would be adament that whover paints it does NOT buff it. I don't care what anyone says any paint job I have seen that is buffed after painting looses its luster in 2 years or less. If the paint does not flow out right then repaint.
I think that more than the brand of paint it is a matter of preperation and the skill of the painter. [and often weather].

 

[Maynard Rupp]

I have sprayed the "new" Imron on some of my airplane's parts and on some of the removable parts on our Hat. The big difference is that the thinner is already in the Imron for spraying. By doing that Dupont could meet the federal VOC rules, (thanks fed for making me spend good paint money for thinner). I find it sprays just fine and has held up every bit as well as the older Imron. The big complaint about Imron is that it is not available for rolling and tipping. With the new boat yard rules, it is pretty tough to get a spray paint job. I think that leaves Awlgrip as your only choice. A friend of mine had his new, white sailboat painted dark blue with Awlcat 2000 and in the first year his fenders wore through the paiint to expose the white gelcoat.

 

[67hat34c]

awlcraft 2000 is not very durable and fades quickly but is polishable and can feather it.

awlgrip is way tougher but you cant polish and cant feather it. if you get a sag or run , you will have to repaint the whole section or live with it. With awlgrip careful paint plan must be made. plan on sections with natural stopping points for a tape line. also if the primer has not been sanded before top coat, it will not stick properly and will peal. that is the biggest fault with most paint jobs. contractor will tell you that he will do all the steps but if you are not there watching then he will skip the labor intensive jobs like sanding between coats.


word from experinece, make a paint plan, do the quality controll yourself and then stick to the plan. look up awlgrips web site and copy the paint process and then make sure the painter sticks to it. We had a plan and did not follow through and got screwed, see prior posts.

We used Hanlon Plating to do our chrome work, Dr. Jim used them also. Hanlon has a web site.

 

[captddis]

Maynard, how long ago did you paint your plane? Is it in Michigan in a hangar?
I have friends here in FL who had their topsides done with Imron. Two years later it is loosing its shine. My 24 year old Imron still shines and it has been a southern boat all its life. Around here paint is usually good for 5 years.

 

[Pete]

It is not that often that a question on the forum can be resolved factually, with a single phone call. But, we have one here. The question is what paint is Hatteras currently using to paint the exterior of their boats. The answer from the Hatteras Parts Department is Alexseal. The sequence of different products used, going from most current backwards in time is: Alexseal, Awlcraft, Awlgrip, Imron, Epoxy (two part). Them are the facts.

Pete

 

[34Hatt]

Did you ask for how long they have been using it? I know the last time I asked at a boat show it was Alwcraft! Seems like they have been doing a lot of switching must be a reason for that! Like it has been said these paint today are not the same. I have used a Lot of Sterling paints have a 19' boat painted in mid 90's did a trojan in 2000 paint was bought in 1998. then painted my 34C in 2001 both of the older paint job holding up better then the newer one.

 

[krush]

Has anybody tried importing some lead paint from china?


Sorry, couldn't resist...though I bet it holds up very well.

 

[Pete]

Hatteras started using Alexseal in the beginning of 2007.

Pete

 

[Brian Degulis]

Un less you have some specific problem with it I believe you should use what the yard normally works with. Otherwise the guy holding the gun may have to adapt or learn the nuances of the paint you have chosen bad idea.

I had to learn this the hard way. I earn a living building commercial boats been doing it for over 25 years so I have some pretty strong ideas on how things should be done and what products to use. The problem is that there is almost always more than one good method or product and insisting that it be done your way just doesn't work. So now I pick a yard that I trust and let them do they're thing if it's something I really feel strongly about then I would find a yard that feels the same way. It just works better.

Brian

 

[Boatsb]

Hatteras started using Alexseal in the beginning of 2007.

Pete

I guess their process changed as did their design. It's not always progress. Sometimes it's just change.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Is that the new Carver line-up ?? GACK !! LOL ws

 

[mtadamek]

I had my boat painted last year with awlgrip and the painter left me due to health reasons with a few small things to still paint. I bought the awlgrip and was very impressed with how easy it was to spray. Another thing I was impressed with was that when you buy a quart of awlgrip you actually get a quart of paint, a quart of converter and the thinner. You actually end up with a half gallon of paint. I think with imron you get a quart period (and the thinner of course). It was important to me to know I could spray this stuff in hindsight. I have touched it up in several places and you would be hard pressed to find it. But in your case, you really have to go with what your contracter is comfortable with. With a paint system, the devil is in the details. If your contracter knows the steps he has to perform and has done it many times before, the end job will end up better. If you prefer a different product, find a different painter that uses that product.

 

[34Hatt]

Un less you have some specific problem with it I believe you should use what the yard normally works with. Otherwise the guy holding the gun may have to adapt or learn the nuances of the paint you have chosen bad idea.

I had to learn this the hard way. I earn a living building commercial boats been doing it for over 25 years so I have some pretty strong ideas on how things should be done and what products to use. The problem is that there is almost always more than one good method or product and insisting that it be done your way just doesn't work. So now I pick a yard that I trust and let them do they're thing if it's something I really feel strongly about then I would find a yard that feels the same way. It just works better.

Brian

This is so True what Brian has said just want to second this!!!