Refinishing exterior teak - confused

[Bill Root]

I'm nearing the end of my refit process on Tucandu, and the last thing I need to do is refinish the teak handrails, companionway hatches and fly bridge steps. I have lots of experience refinishing mahogany, but none refinishing teak.

The PO stained all the exterior teak with a dark red stain that really doesn't look very good, IMHO. I suspect he may have done that to cover up minor damage, so I may not be able to do a completely clear coating. I like the deep honey colored look that I've seen on other resored Hatteras boats. How do I get the teak back to that color? I've read the various historical posts, and I'm getting pretty confused. There seem to be many conflicting strong opinions.

Home port is in Florida, but I will be taking it on the Great Loop for a year beginning the end of this month. I don't mind doing a little periodic maintainance to keep the teak looking good, but I don't want to have to strip and refinish every three months. Here are my specific questions:

- Do I need to bleach the teak after stripping it?
- Do I need to stain it after stripping/bleaching to get that honey color?
- What coating is best? Sikkens/Cetol? Traditional varnish like Schooner? 2 part epoxies/polyester? other?

Sorry for the long post, but I really want to do this right the first time.

Thanks,

 

[REBrueckner]

Likely you'll need to use paint remover or heavy sanding to get the old red stain out of the wood grain...

Do I need to bleach the teak after stripping it?
If the color of the teak after stripping and sanding is uniform likely you don't need to bleach it...but bleaching helps create a uniform base color for the best finish. Oxalic acid is the standard bleach...True Value Hardware may still carry the powder.

- Do I need to stain it after stripping/bleaching to get that honey color?
No. The traditional honey color you seek is a combination of teak with the honey color of the finish coating.

- What coating is best? Sikkens/Cetol? Traditional varnish like Schooner? 2 part epoxies/polyester? other?

Here you'll get a lot of conflicting answers....go with those from your own geographic area...
I do not like the color of Sikkens/Cetol....I prefer a quality varnish of your choice. Perhaps one that does not require sanding between subsequent coats within 72 hours....can't think of the name...blue label.....I and others have recommended it here before.... not having to sand and clean saves time and builds up protection faster...Once you have built up a base protection of say five coats, in the NY/Mass area one coat a year for maintenance keeps it looking good for a number of years. I keep mine in handrail covers buttoned on during the winter off season...it probably helps a bit, but the main source of deterioriation is strong summer sun....

TIPS:
Before applying new finish coats after stripping and preparation: wiping the teak with an acetone soaked rag will help clean it and remove surface oil for best adhesion. Thinning the first coat of varnish will help it get into the wood pores for best grip. Thinning subsequent coats slightly with a Penetrol like product will make application much easier. Don't refinish in windy weather, when adjacent boats are sanding, nor on extremely hot days nor late in the day when evening dampness might dull the finish if not set....Just before refinishing, wipe with a terry like tack cloth..one without lint....

 

[SKYCHENEY]

IMO, traditional varnish looks best. I like Captains, but others prefer Epifanes or Schooner. They look the same when finished, but there are slight differences in how they are to work with. Another option is a 2-part finish such as Bristol or Honey Teak. I don't particularly care for Bristol, but it looks just like varnish. As Rob stated, ask others in your area that have good looking brightwork what they use.

 

[bobk]

As was said, you will get lots of individual opinions on what to use. I used Semco on the teak of my trawler for 26 years. It looks like wood, but not like varnished wood. EASY! And I would have used it on the Hatt if I were going to strip it all down.

The PO of the Hatt used Sickens Cetol, clear on the handrails. best I can figure it was applied in 2002 and still looks good. I have my boat in Florida each winter and Baltimore each summer. I add two coats of Cetol clear twice a year. Easy to do and it looks like varnish. Do not use the original orange color if you decide on Cetol. Either Marine Light, or the new teak color for the base coats.

Good luck.

Bob
1981 48MY

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I hate that orange stuff. It looks like cr@p. I don't understand why anyone would use that. Gray teak looks better than that. Of course, that's just one man's opinion.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I had this done on Blue Note last year by a local professional. She used Epiphanes. It looked great and still does. Lots of coats and time, but when it's done, it is really beautiful. As soon as I finish the bulkhead repair, which still needs to be sanded, primed and painted with Awlgrip, I am going to do the aft salon window the same way she did. About a coat a day for a week, but the results are worth it. (I have also heard good things about Bristol, but never used it myself)

 

[Bill Root]

Well, there sure are some strong (and diverse) opinions out there. I've used Interlux Schooner on my classic mahogany runabout - 14 coats to get the right smoothness and crispness. Maybe that's the best way to go. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[gflane]

After 10-yrs of varnishing the hand rails and experimenting with Interlux etc. I finally got it right ..........USE EPIFANES! I have used this for the next 10-yrs and my rails look like the interior wood on a Lexus etc........... get a wood finishing book from any Barnes and Noble etc if you want to see the what and why of it all.

Basically, Epifanes has a very hi qual. hi % Tung Oil make-up and after 10-ys of sags, orange peel and all kinds of defects; the Epifanes never produces these defects. Varnishes are easy to resand and add coats to and easy to strip .......... use paint stipper and lots of paper and tape to mask off the decks.
The most important parameters are:
On bare teak ...... let it sit a day or so after sanding to let it oxidize in the air and sun ........ this seems to give it that natural "mahogany - brown" tone rather than the blond / bleached look (never bleach or use Oxalic Acid because you damage the grain by removing the lignin (I believe).
I use:
1. cheap foam brushes
2. use very coarse paper ...... like 80-grit BY HAND (sand machines gouge).
3. no need to finish with 180 or 220 grit ..... but use those when adding new varnish or between coats to improve surface finish.
4. depending upon weather and temps you must add the correct thinner ..... I find that Interlux 333 is good for slowing down the cross linking (drying) in hot weather ..... it increases the "wet edge time" during which the varnish will still flow enough to level itself. In cold weather you want to thin with 216 which speeds up the "drying" so it hardens quickly enough to skim over before the dew sets in. The viscosity is tough to gauge, but dip the wooden handle into the varnish and pick it out and note that it drips rather than runs off in a thread.
5. Use a glass bowl and mix the thinner very gently by stirring and avoid any air bubbles.
6. always use a good 15-cent paper filter when pouring from the varnish can.7. wipe the rails with 216 thinner and let that air dry. I use paper towel because I can use new sheets every 10 or 15 feet ..... You are trying to get all the dust off. I also use a shop vac to blow the floor and the rails first ....BUT ONLY IF THERE IS ENOUGH WIND TO MOVE THE DUST CLOUD away from your boat. DUST IS THE MAIN CAUSE OF POOR FINISH.
8. wait for the varnish to harden enough so you can safely touch it and you can do the next coat without resanding ...... but often you will sand between coats to get a glass smooth finish. but you must reclean the new dust with 333 rather than the "hotter" 216 thinner.

You can absolutely achieve an even and glass smooth finish without sags, bubbles, orange peel or fish eye or dusty feel. The varnish hardens via contact with oxygen in the air and diffusion thru the new coat ......... so thick coats cause more problems than lots of thin coats. Three to five coats look very rich and professional. Keep the can tightly sealed and avoid pouring leftovers back which will cause it to harden after sealing the can.

I probable left out many of the "learning curve" tricks that I do unconsciously, so it you try varnishing and need more tips i.e. like do only 3-feet per brushfull and do the top and sides asap and continue with the next 3-feet before going back to finish UNDERNEATH. The whole process is a lot like a printing process for a magazine cover .......... also, visualize that you are trying to "wrap" the rail in sandwich wrapper"

 

[stormchaser]

I hate that orange stuff. It looks like cr@p. I don't understand why anyone would use that. Gray teak looks better than that. Of course, that's just one man's opinion.

You are thinking of the original formula stuff, the new clear Sikkens isn't orange and looks a LOT like traditional varnish. Not quite as good but close and a whole lot easier to work with. Once you hve a base of 3-4 coats, 1 coat a year will keep it looking like new virtually forever as long as it does not get damaged...and no sanding needed to add the additional coat a yar, jsu give it a good washing.

 

[dwaynec]

Watch out for the clear Sikkens! It has no UV inhibitor in it so after a couple years everything begins to fade. It will also not turn the wood the nice golden brown color that varnish does.

Learned this one the hard way.

 

[stormchaser]

That problem has been corrected for a while. http://www.marlinmag.com/news/news/...w-with-enhanced-uv-protection-1000070685.html

Cetol Natural is what you would want if you do not want orange, topped with the clear/gloss if high gloss is desired. Remember, the clear/gloss was not designed to be used alone, it is a topcoat to go over one of the others...you need a base of at least 2 coats of the base before you can start putting on the gloss...but after that, jsut keep adding more gloss each season...it really does look pretty nice if you ask me...not AS nice as a good varnish job, but far better than a poor varnish job. For those of us who suck at varnish, it is much easier to get a good result...

 

[dwaynec]

My bad... Havn't bought any for a year now, and the last I bought didn't have the UV protection. I will have to look at the new stuff before I purchase anything. I am going to completely refinish my teak this year because of the fading problem I had with the old product. I will say the cetol does apply nicely.

Not a job I look forward to (again).

 

[stormchaser]

Did you put a base coat down or just use the clear? The base coats always had UV protection but it has been improved, the clear did not, but it also was not supposed to be used on it's own.

 

[pmurphy]

The PO on my boat used Signature Finish (Honey Teak). It has held up quite well in the FL sun for at least three years now. Does anyone else have experience with this brand? It's time for me to recoat or change brands.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

I use Bristol Finish. This 2 part polyurethane stuff has all the UV inhibiters that any varnish has, but the finish is good for 5 years without re-coating. The 4 required coats can be applied all in one day with no sanding between coats. For a nice and glassy finish I sand the next day and apply another coat. The stuff is thin and more difficult to apply than varnish, but the whole job takes 2 days. Those beautiful varnish jobs require about 14 coats at 1 per day, sanding between most. Now you have to re-coat at least annually. More sanding, taping, and covering everything. Then there are the weather problems and bugs. Where on earth can you find 14 good days with no bugs? OK Sky, I know, do it while the boat is in heated winter storage.

 

[boatwright]

heres a tip that helps on any finish between mantance coats .find a small bottle with a brush in it like a nail polish bottle and fill with your finish of choice. when you have a scratch or nick coat the spot right then. water won't start to lift or discolor the wood until you can do the next maintance coat. won't work for two part finishes.

 

[Brian Degulis]

I've always believed in the 2 part urethanes. Not Bristol that's just expensive junk with a great marketing plan. But the Awlgrip and Devoe 2 part urethanes work well or at least I thought so. I tried some Epithanes about a year ago and It's holding up better than the 2 part stuff. It's a much slower process just one coat per day with the Epithanes and 3 to 4 with the 2 part but it does seem to hold up better in the FL sun.

Brian

 

[aquacraig@shaw.ca]

What do folks in thr rainy Pacific North West recommend? My decks were all Cetol, which was fine when in a boat house, but they are definitely going to natural. The railings, howeve, deserve better appearance and I just don't think varnish will endure. Appreciate advice.

Craig

 

[Maynard Rupp]

I've always believed in the 2 part urethanes. Not Bristol that's just expensive junk with a great marketing plan. But the Awlgrip and Devoe 2 part urethanes work well or at least I thought so. I tried some Epithanes about a year ago and It's holding up better than the 2 part stuff. It's a much slower process just one coat per day with the Epithanes and 3 to 4 with the 2 part but it does seem to hold up better in the FL sun.

Brian

Why do you say that Bristol Finish is junk? I have used clear Awlgrip inside our sailboat but was told that it doesn't have UV inhibiters. Bristol does. Ours looks great after 3 years. I dunno.

 

[stormchaser]

My decks were all Cetol, which was fine when in a boat house,

Craig

EEK! Somebody put Cetol on your DECKS?! Wow, that would be slippery as HELL when wet. Never, ever, using anything on decks, for your own safety...they should always be natural. The only time I've heard of people using Cetol on decks is to help seal up leaks in old laid-teak decks.