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Raw Water Filter / Sea Strainer Question

  • Thread starter Thread starter solanderi
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solanderi

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Apr 21, 2005
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377
Hatteras Model
45' CONVERTIBLE-Series II (1984 - 1992)
On a 45 Hat w/ 692's the previous owner had glass dome sea strainers in the ER mounted after the seacocks which he changed out for the fairing block arrangement mounted outside the hull which consists of a stainless plate with a hundred little holes in it ?

Was that a bad idea?

How does a person clean the fairing with stainless steel plate gizmo?

Should I put the glass dome sea strainers back on the boat? If so, what brand and model? As always, Thank you.
 
This has been done to a LOT of these boats, mostly because the cooling system is marginal on the 692s.

If not kept IMPECCABLY CLEAN you will get nasty creep problems at anything over 1600-1700 RPM when the water gets hot - and around here, it does. We have 87F (!) water on the surface right now, even out 20-25nm from shore! This is a real bear for an engine to deal with, and unless there is enough reserve capacity, you've got trouble.

The strainers introduce some suction restriction, which is why they are often removed. I personally don't like that, for the reason you noted - if you foul up one of those grate things, you get to go diving to clear it. Tha'ts ok in a nice harbor, but in 5' seas it can suck quite badly.

I've found that the 692s cooling system is "just ok' if I pull the coolers ANNUALLY and deal with them. If not, then there's trouble, usually in the second year right about when the water starts to get hot....
 
Great info....
What is your set up?
 
I have clamshell scoops (the standard Hatt issue) which are ESSENTIAL - you need them to "force" water into the intakes at running speeds. Trust me on this - they also have to be angled towards the keel some (!) to work right.

Inside, I have seacocks, then BIG Perko strainers. Then on to the gear cooler, and then the water pump.

The problem is where the gear cooler is. Its on the suction side, which is in the wrong place. There is no GOOD fix for this problem; its how Covington (who did the marinization of the enignes) set it up, and its one of the reasons the system as a whole is marginal. Suction restriction is death on flow rates with pumps......

LOTS of people have taken off the strainers in an attempt to get around this problem. It doesn't really fix it though, because the gear cooler then becomes your "strainer", and that's a real BEAR to deal with when it gets clogged up, due to the fact that Covington WELDED a 90 degree elbow on the inlet side (to make the hose route right). That, unfortunately, means access to the inlet side of the tube bundle is SEVERELY restricted.

The key with my boat to making it all happy is to make damn sure the raw water system is absolutely pristine. So long as it is, she runs fine. Let her get a bit gunky inside, and the creep problems start when the water temps go up.

What I'd like to find is a combination gear/fuel cooler that would fit inline in the place the fuel cooler is now. That would handily solve the problem as it would remove the gear cooler in the suction side of the system. My estimation is that this would boost raw water flow by 20-25% at full load, which is a HUGE increase. However, so far, I've not been able to locate anything which would bolt up and do the job..... which is most unfortunate. This one place I'd gladly spend a couple of boat bucks to be rid of the finicky nature of the raw water system on these engines, especially since I live where the sea surface temps in the summer run with the dial set at "bathtub".
 
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You might get in touch with Tony Athens at Seaboard Marine in CA. He has fuel/oil coolers that he takes off Cummins QSM11 engines and sells at very low prices. They are pretty good size. If you set them up in parallel you could halve the resistance to flow. They are new units.
 
Well, my port 6v92 (1979 43c) did just that last Thursday as sea temps got to 80 degrees. Creeps FROM normal 175 to 210 above 1700rpm; heat comes right down when off plane. Had H/E and shower head cleaned last year. Cleaned strainers, going underneath next Saturday for a look see. Checked impellor, which looked good. Question: cover plate on jabsco raw water pump is original (1979) and has scouring almost as deep as a dime's thickness. Will this contribute to less than perfect suction at hight speeds? Is there a wear plate behind impellor that I should examine?

Anyone know a good source for Jabsco parts and gaskets or is DD the source?
 
The end plate is trash - throw it out. Scratches that catch a fingernail are trouble - ones as deep as a dime are SEVERELY impairing suction.

You may be able to turn over the cover plate - both sides ARE usable.

The pump is a standard item; you can buy it and parts from Depco. Saunders in Panama City also has them.

BTW, 210 is dangerously hot. Anything over 195 can crack cylinder heads and cook liner seals on wet-liner engines (the 6V92 being one of those.) Don't do that to your motors - it will lead to big bills.

If you didn't clean the coolers this spring, that may be the problem. In particular check the gear oil cooler - I like to call them "auxiliary sea strainers" for a good reason....
 
Yes, on 210 as too hot!. My engines do not have the infamous oil cooler 'eel grass' strainer. Mine goes from raw water strainer -->raw water pump -->fuel cooler -->H/E -->shower head. Oil cooler is part of H/E block.

I am also going to pull inflow side of H/E †o look for obstructions.
 
Check the shower head as well.

If the H/E cores haven't been out in more than a couple of years, there could be silicate dropout on the freshwater side. This can only be removed with a professional cleaning - take 'em to a radiator shop and they'll fix you right up.

That cover plate definitely has to go. Also check all suction-side raw water hose clamps - suction-side air leaks are deadly to pump performance.
 
Genesis said:
That cover plate definitely has to go. .

Well, you don't HAVE to trash it...

If you have access to a lathe or even a table top belt sander, you can easily resurface it good as new. I remove my impellers and resurface the cover plate every winter. Works fine.
 
Good point, and yes, you can (I have.)

However, the original poster is describing scoring as deep as the width of a DIME. That's a significant percentage of the thickness of the material - I wouldn't want to sand it down THAT far.
 
Re: Raw Water Filter / Sea Strainer Question/Liner Seals?

Genesis mentioned liner seals being affected by an overheat. Several years ago I had an overheat, due to low coolant...long story. At any rate, the head on the 6-71 was pulled. The head was checked and the liners inspected and all was given clean bill of health, as the head was straight and the liners showed "no wear" as there were about 100-150 hours on a prior rebuild.

However, that engine has always "lost" some coolant, both before and after my overheat. Are the liner seals at the bottom of the seat where the liners bottom out against the block? What material is their composition?

I am probably going to put an old fashioned pressure test on the cooling system to trace any pressure loss vs. coolant loss.

At any rate, can you expand on the liner seals- where and what are they and from what material are they made?

Thanks...
 
6-71s are dry-fit liners. That is, the block has the cooling passages in it, and the liners are an interference-fit into the bore. There is no direct coolant contact with the liner; heat transfer is by metal-to-metal contact. When these engines are overhauled they MUST have a large number (more than 20!) VERY precise micrometer measurements taken, the correct (based on those measurements) liners ordered, and the fitting process must be followed TO THE LETTER.

If that is not done, you will get localized overheating due to poor heat transfer in the new liner to block. The result will be a trashed hole, usually evidenced by low compression in the affected bore - the evidence is apparent when the head comes off, as the liner has a blue color to it where it overheated and/or it is seized in the bore and won't come out! If you ever find a 6-71 with that kind of damage and it has been overhauled it is proof that the overhaul was botched. Getting these measurements in a clean enough environment to be precise enough, and doing the fitment correctly with the engine in the boat is POSSIBLE, but not easy.

There is no "seal" per-se on a dry-fit liner to leak coolant. If your engine is losing coolant, it is likely an external leak or coming from a seal in the head.

6V92s (the V92 series generally) have WET liners. The liner is cooled by coolant that passes around the liner; the block and liner do not directly touch except at the top where the lip of the liner fits into the deck. The liner is sealed from the rest of the block by elastomer seals (basically big O-rings) at the top and bottom of the bore. These seals are made of material that is impervious to attack by antifreeze and oil, BUT like all elastomer materials, it is subject to damage by excessive heat. When that happens you almost always get coolant leaks into the oil (from the bottom seal, which has the crankcase on the other side of it.)

BOTH designs can leak due to overheats in other places. Overheats are particularly bad on Detroits due to the very complex block and head castings. Heat transfer is critical, and its very easy to end up outside of design limits, particularly with high performance "recreational" marine engines that are running on the ragged edge of permissible temperatures internally anyway. This is a function of the 2-stroke design, which must pass air through the airbox into the cylinder ports, and the exhaust ports in the head, plus the injector tubes. The injector tubes, made of brass, are a press-fit (with seals) into the cylinder head. Overheats (or overtorquing the injector nut hold-down bolt) can compromise THOSE seals as well. The head has coolant flowing through it, as well as oil, and compromised seals there can leak coolant into the oil, oil into the coolant (!), or either into the engine where it is burned and expelled. The seals most often compromised are at the injector tubes, although the head-to-deck seal is also at risk.

Be very careful of coolant leaks. If you can't FIND the coolant (e.g. its not showing up in the oil) then it is PROBABLY going into the cylinder and/or airbox. Too much of it when you're shut down can lead to a hydrolock, which will immediately destroy the engine on startup. Further, even small amounts of coolant can do severe cylinder and ring damage due to both glazing and rust (from the water in the coolant) if it sits.

Another possibility is a leak in the exhaust manifold(s); on most Detroits these are in the freshwater circuit. Most small leaks there do not end up trashing the engine as the manifolds "hang down" from the exhaust ports, and thus, small leaks don't go back into the engine. The bad news is that you REALLY won't like the price on a replacement.

Bottom line is that you must find coolant leaks and STOP THEM, no matter the source. Nearly all of the possibilities can lead to a trashed engine through one mechanism or another.
 
Genesis: Thanks for this substantial information on the liner seals.

While you are on a "hot roll (role?)", I know I need to rebuild the sister engine, since she smokes for a good 2-4 minutes, after a cold start. She struggled to start in the spring two years ago, after soaking in 35 degree weather. The yard crew was not concerned, as they were going spray in some ether, after about five minutes. But then she took off on her own.

Her oil consumption is reasonable(?) this year at about 1/2 to 1qt at 17 hours of runtime this year, after oil lines were replaced and some other seals replaced/improved. Oil pressure is 50+#'s at 1,800+ rpm and 15-20# at idle. Her oil does not turn jet black and stays brownish, but she does not stay mostly clear like the rebuilt engine. Finally, a couple cyls were inspected and some rings exhibit some type of surface "cracks".

What is the worst case, if she is not rebuild this very year? Do you think she is over due or can I dare to run another season or so?

What do think from a 100,000 light years distance?

Thanks,
'72 43' J&T 6-71N's
 
6-71Ns? I'd run it.

If the oil pressure is ok, then the mains are all right. That's the biggie - trash the bottom end, you get a BIG bill, because a huge part of the time that's not rebuildable.

Just watch the performance. If she starts smoking when running (not just on a cold start) then pull the airbox covers and look to see what you got going on. In all probability you'll lose a ring eventually, and when you do, that hole will be trashed - this will result in smoke on a cold start and fuel in the water, and it won't clean up all the way when she warms up.

Detroits will run even when totally screwed up. You're into this for a head and kits anyway when you DO rebuild, so as long as you don't damage the bottom end or trash a camshaft you're all right.

DO NOT use ether under any circumstances. Ever.

DO install block heaters of some kind, and when its not 90F outside, use 'em. I have a long post here about my installation; a search should find it. The 6-71s would be amenable to the same sort of thing, or use a Kim Hotstart unit since you should have the port available in the block for it on a non-turbo engine.
 
Genesis: Thanks for the great reply. I do have the block heaters, which I use all the time. On rare occasion, I cold start just to prove I can do it. I thought it was a good test, when I had to start on a cold, Spring day, after sitting all winter.

Also, a previous post on warming up at 1,100 rpm has been a godsend, as smoking clears up much faster and the oil seems to stay cleaner for a longer period after the oil change. The un-rebuilt engine smoked like crazy warming up at 650rpm.

Since oil and water temp readings are a function of correct voltage at all connections, those readings are much more stable than when I got the boat in 1997, since I replaced all questionable connections and replaced all senders. Strangely though, the un-rebuilt engine (port), runs much higher oil pressure reading at speed, i.e. 60+#'s, than the rebuilt engine (stbd), which can wander from 45 to 50+. Maybe its a sender thing, or I wonder if the pressure relief valve is acting differently in each engine.

The more I fix, the better other things seem to stabilize.

Thanks again,
Great Lakes boater
 

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