Questions 53C

[chris piazza]

Well we spent the first weekend on the boat and as I had time to explore all the system I have a few questions to pose. I got the transmission controls moved to the port side with the throttles moved to starboard. The cables are very stiff and movement takes, what I feel, to much force. I have checked for kinks or obstructions from the bridge to the engine room with nothing apparent. However air temps were in the 40’s. Is there anyway too efficiently lubricant these cables or is it just the cold? Also one more question, the Admiral spent her three days on the boat cleaning the inside too make it equal to or better sterilized than a surgical room. The window tracks in the salon have mold on the gray felt. Is there any way to clean these without changing the felt?
Also I was able to get pictures this weekend but can’t figure out how or where to post them.

Chris
Superior Nights

 

[REBrueckner]

If you wet the window track liberally with a water hose and let any muck soften a while, or after some rain, you can then flush most gunk with a regular hose and nozzle. After you get the accumulatied dirt/muck out, you can pour in some dilute bleach (maybe 5 or 10 to one) and then flush with a hose after a few minutes...Mildew remover will also work, but it about 10 times the cost of diluted household bleach. Where the track drains via slotted opening, the fuzz is likely split to let water out...I have cut the fuzz away from those drain areas as muck always clogs the drain, moisture is trapped, mold grows and the aluminum frame pits...

 

[Maynard Rupp]

Chris, It is much easier to change the felt than it is to clean them. Put a small bottle jack between the frames after you push the windows almost to one end. You may have a small wood block held in with two screws in the upper track. This is to prevent an intruder from sliding that forward glass aft to get into your boat. Remove that block first. Use a wood block above and below the jack. You only need to jack it about 1/8". Pick the window glasses up and they will come out. Slide the fuzzies out of the tracks at one of the relief spots in the track. While you are in there, use a bent pick and pry out the nylon glides at the bottom of the track. Now use a shop vac and clean the track. You won't believe how much junk comes out. Buy enough felt and track from Sam's. Very inexpensive. First lay the nylon strips in. Using a small hammer and a wood dowel as large as will fit in the track area, tap the lengths of track into the aluminum frame. Now that your fuzzie tracks are clean, you'll have no trouble sliding the new fuzzies in. Clean your window edges good, re-jack the frame, slip the glasses in.

To solve your cable problem, remove them one at a time from the shift and throttle levers on the engines to find the culprit. Remember Chris, because you have those cockpit controls, your cables will always be somewhat stiff. You should not have any detents or drag set on those cockpit levers. Spray lube the lever movements, make sure the drags are backed off. Try removing the cockpit control cables from the engines and trannys. Make sure those cables move freeley and , again, have no detents or drags set.

This process is easier than it sounds. The frames were designed so you could lift the glasses up and out, but the weight of the flybridge has often caused a slight sag in the frame. That's why you may need the jack. Try it first. Be carefull as the glasses are heavy.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Chris,
If your boat has the original cables you are better off changing them out for new ones. It is impossible to lubricate a cable that long, I don't care what sort of fitting you put on it. The difference with new cables is amazing. Here are some suggestions:
-the way to do this is to make up a threaded fitting that "splices" the cables together, new to old, and slowly and gently pull the old one out, pulling the new one through. If your boat has the original engines and gears and controls, Sam's can tell you what the lengths are supposed to be. If repowered, they may be different! During the pull-through, you use a lot of silicone spray or WD40 or whatever to ease the cable going through.
-I used Panish cables (they also make controls). Teleflex are good as well. You probably have Morse. Use the SMALLEST diameter cable that you can use- the thicker the cable, the more friction (the frictional area between the moving part and the sheath is greater in thicker cables). Cables with friction-reducing layers like Teflon are better, I think.
-make sure that the cable is tied down every foot or so- any movement that is used up in cable lash will result in reduced motion at the working end, and screw up the feel of the control system.
-proper alignment of everything and anchoring of the cables at both ends is critical- the systems will NOT work unless this is done right. Don't assume that the old cables were installed and set up right- things drift over the years and get out of whack.

Shameless plug department: I got more help from Rob Panish at Panish Controls in CT than I could have imagined. Their products are great, and their customer support is better if that's possible. They make their own cables, and they will give you all the help you need setting things up. All cable ends are standardized, as far as I know, so you should be able to substitute anyone's cables for Morse.
When I first looked into replacing the controls and cables on Blue Note, I looked at Morse- the customer service and response by them were so God-awful that I gave up and went in a different direction. Morse have been acquired by Teleflex, but I don't know that it has done any good. Based on my experience of a few years ago, I would buy anything BUT Morse. Even though it was OEM.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I forgot to mention that when I finally got the old cables out, the amount of rust and corrosion inside the cable jackets was incredible. And they still worked- sort of. And I had tried to grease them over the years- it just doesn't get very far up there. Some of these cables are 18ft long and my boat is only 36 feet- I can't imagine how long they are on a 53C.

 

[MikeP]

New cables are the way to go but if the cables aren't damaged and you want to try lubricating them, do this:

Disconnect the cables from the control and from the eng/tranny. If you have upper/lower helm cables that connect together at the lower helm, disconnect them there. At the upper end of each cable place a 18" piece of rubber hose over the outside of the outer cable sheath. Clamp it with a hose clamp to the cable. Find a way to hold the portion of the cable with the hose in a vertical position. At the lower end place a small bowl or whatever under the end of the cable. Then pour Marvel Mystery oil into the top of each hose until it is full. Do this for each individual cable.

The next day all the MMO will have distributed itself through the cable and the excess will be in the bowls. This will definitely clean and lubricate the cable. Some people like to follow the MMO with a heavier lubricant like 40 wt eng oil. Do so if it makes you happy!

HOWEVER, whether it will actually improve anything is 50-50 at best. Much of the time the cables have become internally corroded and the lubrication will not fix the roughness that is causing the binding. I have done this many times with control cables from motorcycles to boats, Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It works pretty well on bikes and not so well on boats. New cables ALWAYS work!

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Even though you can see no kinks or sharp curves in the cables, you might try switching them to the OEM setup (shift on stbd, throttle on port). There may not be enough slack to have them reversed as you do now. If they worked fine before you switched them, then it's not bad cables. It is either detent or drag at the levers or a kink caused by the switch.

 

[Trojan]

Mike, why can't you put air in the hose over top of the mm oil and pressure it through. Do that 2 or 3 times to help clean it out.



BILL

 

[MikeP]

Bill,

GOOD IDEA!

Sure, if you have compressed air available you could do that and it would distribute the MMO through the cable in a few seconds and probably help remove whatever grunge can be removed. Frankly, I never thought of it!

 

[Nonchalant1]

WAIT before you go replacing cables! That might not be the problem. Detroit diesel engines have a tendency to apply heavy backressure on the throttle due to their governor and rack control design. This makes the throttle controls feel very stiff and hard to operate. It can be checked easily by you and fixed by you if you're even reasonably mechanically inclined. There is an adjustable booster spring designed to offset this backpressure tendency. If it is set wrong or just about worn out it will make any cables you put on it feel stiff and hard to operate.

The easiest check is to engage the sync at the dock when out of gear. Then run both engines up to 1800 RPM. Then shut of the sync switch and see what happens. If the slave engine RPM drops more than 200 RPM, you need to check and adjust your booster spring tension.

To check it, pick the hardest to operate engine. With the engine off, unhook the throttle cable where it hooks to the engine at the lever on the governor. Move the cable end out of the way by moving the throttle at the helm. Make sure the speed control lever is at idle and start the engine. Go to the engine and manually move the speed control to max speed (wear ear protection) and after the engine runs up, let go of the speed control lever. The speed control lever should return to the idle position by itself slowly. If it does not return to idle, it needs more spring tension. If it returns too fast, it needs less tension.

To adjust it you first have to make sure the pivot bolt that the spring is hooked on at the lever is aligned so that the bolt hook, the lever and the spring are all in one straight line when the speed control is at idle position. Then run it, move to fast and release, adjust the spring so that the speed control just barely returns to idle by itself. First adjust it a little too far so that it no longer returns to idle and then gradually reduce the spring tension until it does just return to idle and then lock the locknut on the spring adjustment threads.

Doug Shuman

 

[chris piazza]

Well guys all good advice. The cables look like they have been replaced at some time by the previous owner, but I don’t know when. I could not detect any rust or corrosion on them and the jackets look in excellent shape. I think I will start by disconnecting the cockpit controls first. It doesn’t work anyways. The previous owner said they didn’t work when he purchased the boat in 95’. Can I just completely remove the transmission and throttles cables from the cockpit controls until I have an opportunity to dig deeper into it later to see why it doesn’t work?

Chris
Superior Nights

 

[Maynard Rupp]

I can't imagine why they wouldn't work. The only job they have is to move the throttle and shift levers. Are they hooked up at both ends? If so, they have to work. They should move when you move a bridge controol. They are attached to the same place. Our 36C has an inside helm, so I am a self ordained expert on that subject. Your controls will never move as freely as ones for a single station. I would disconnect the cables at the cockpit station and make sure the levers all move freely and that none have detents. You can adjust them and you will see how when you have the assembly in your hands. While they are off, move the bridge levers to see if they seem freer. Now replace the cockpit controls and disconnect the cables from their engines. After the cockpit cables are off,( do this only if you aren't satisfied with the results from working and lubing the lever sets), try the bridge controls again. I would not remove the cockpit cables. That is a great system for short handed docking. By all means do not pull those cables out as you won't be able to get new cables in. You have to hook cables end to end and pull the new ones through.