Question for the Diesel guys... Fuel Additives

[dougl33]

Ok.

As I prepare for my first season of running diesels I was wondering what the diesel guys use for additives when they fill up. Some sort of biocide or cetane boost?

I have no clue.

 

[Avenger]

There are a few threads on the subject that you can search for. In a nutshell, there are many additives on the market. I prefer Stanadyne Performance Formula (the fact that we sell it doesn't hurt either) it has a cetane booster, lubricity supplement, and cleaning agents. It also has anti-gelling agents, but if you're not using the boat in sub-freezing temperatures that doesn't mean much. Stanadyne is probably the most expensive of the bunch.

A lot of the guys here seem to like Diesel Kleen which I think is made by Power Service. I hear good things about that too. I would suggest sticking with one of these two if possible. Although some of our members may have some others that they have had good experience with that they can recommend. Just be careful, there's a lot of snake oil out there.

Biocides. Only if you have a problem, and even then it is better to get the water that's causing the problem out of the fuel.

Here's a couple of threads that turned up in a search:

http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2986
http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=570

 

[dougl33]

Thanks for the quick reply.

Now all I've got to do is wait until I get out from the back of the yard (probably not until late May! ) and sea trial it.

 

[Mark B]

Bob Smith the inventor of the Ford/Lehman line of marine diesels recommends Marvels Mystery Oil. I and many other Lehman owners run the stuff all the time and if it works for Bob then it will work for you IMHO.

 

[MikeP]

I wasn't going to comment on this thread because generally I don't think that additives do anything useful other than supply additive makers with money they don't deserve but since MMO came up, I will.

IMHO, MMO is the only one that deserves NOT to be considered in the snake oil category. It works very well and one of the things it does VERY WELL is dislodge/disolve, whatever - deposits in the fuel system. This can be good and bad. It can cause a properly running fuel system to turn in to a total PITA because it loosens yeas of gunk in the tank and lines, causing it to clog the fuel filters in minutes...over, and over, and over, and over...

It's a great De-Siezer (is that a word?) and there are innumerable stories of totally siezed engines having MMO poured into the cylinders and then running fine for years with no further attention. It has been around for a long time and was (I don't know if it still is) used by the US Army for vehicle maintanance and it had a MilSpec number.

It's basically a GREAT cleaner with all the good and bad points that can result!

I realize that most folks here strongly disagree with me and use various additives. But I've never seen any value in them and don't use them. Most of the time - again, IMHO - additives to fuel, oil etc are put in to "correct" a problem that they cannot correct though they could mask it.

Example - adding an additive to reduce soot is not fixing the problem. The problem is the fuel/air ratio caused by anything from bad injectors to clogged air filters to improper tune-up. Adding something to the fuel doesn't fix anything - it just covers the symptom.

The only time I would use an additive is if it is specifically recommended by the engine manufacturer for a specific purpose.

That's my opinion. And we all know what an opinion is worth!

 

[Genesis]

MMO is basically a VERY high detergent 10wt machine oil. It does exactly what you think a high-detergent fluid would do. And it works well.

As far as additives, there's a LOT of crap fuel out there. And saying "don't buy it" doesn't work when all the fuel in a given area is coming out of one terminal - and you live there.

Diesel Kleen has made a significant difference for me. BUT - with that said - in my Jetta I now make a point of going to the only land-based station around here that has the new ULSD fuel - and with that in the tank, there's no improvement with the DK any more (there WAS, prior, to the tune of ~3ish MPG - about 6% - in fuel economy - more than the additive cost.) I've got a spreadsheet with EVERY fill I've put in the car and I CAN quantify it.

I have, however, stopped adding it with the ULSD as it does NOTHING to help it in that car.

For now, however, you're not getting ULSD at the fuel pump for your boat. If/when you do, the cetane will be up as well (as it is with the on-land ULSD pumps) and that will likely remove the usefulness of it in your boat as well.

Just not yet... and who knows if/when it will happen.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

MMO is basically a VERY high detergent 10wt machine oil. It does exactly what you think a high-detergent fluid would do. And it works well.

As far as additives, there's a LOT of crap fuel out there. And saying "don't buy it" doesn't work when all the fuel in a given area is coming out of one terminal - and you live there.

Diesel Kleen has made a significant difference for me. BUT - with that said - in my Jetta I now make a point of going to the only land-based station around here that has the new ULSD fuel - and with that in the tank, there's no improvement with the DK any more (there WAS, prior, to the tune of ~3ish MPG - about 6% - in fuel economy - more than the additive cost.) I've got a spreadsheet with EVERY fill I've put in the car and I CAN quantify it.

I have, however, stopped adding it with the ULSD as it does NOTHING to help it in that car.

For now, however, you're not getting ULSD at the fuel pump for your boat. If/when you do, the cetane will be up as well (as it is with the on-land ULSD pumps) and that will likely remove the usefulness of it in your boat as well.

Just not yet... and who knows if/when it will happen.

WOW!!! Up here in Michigan and while we were in Florida, I could not find a station that wasn't selling ULSD. On the road back to Detroit the truck stops offered either LSD or ULSD. They called ULSD "premium diesel" and charged $.10 per gallon more.

 

[34Hatt]

IMHO, MMO is the only one that deserves NOT to be considered in the snake oil category. It works very well and one of the things it does VERY WELL is dislodge/disolve, whatever - deposits in the fuel system. This can be good and bad. It can cause a properly running fuel system to turn in to a total PITA because it loosens yeas of gunk in the tank and lines, causing it to clog the fuel filters in minutes...over, and over, and over, and over...

That is true for that but not all additives!!!! Do a Search here on AJX and you will see that many members have been happy with results. It disolves the crud with out clogging filters. You will also see some call it Snake oil but those are the one's who never used it George with Electra VI a member here did a conversion and for 2 years had nothing but problems with his fuel until he used the AJX.. But you can send him a PM to here it first hand. He has a good story of all the problems he went thru.

 

[Brian Degulis]

There is basically one thing in fuel aditives that makes a differance you can see smell feel and hear and that is the cetane improver. The reason Diesel Kleen is so popular is because of that. As for the other stuff that's in the aditives I don't know if it does any good or not but improving the cetane # definetly does especialy in older engines with high wear. Is that masking the problem? Maybe but it does improve performance and fuel economy and reduces strain on the engine. Cetane improvers are usually ethyl nitrate you can buy dedicated improvers with no other aditives. I don't think you can make the cetane# to high the aditive gets you to the highest point and stops no matter how much more you ad. A cetane improver will lose some of it's efect if the fuel sits in the tank for months so the best way to use it is to ad it in lesser quantities before using the boat as oposed to putting in greater quantities one time.

The other thing to consider is biocides I use the enzyme type Startron when I ad fuel. Does it do anything? Who knows. We have a storage tank at work that developed an alge problem we cleaned the tank and since then started using the Startron and it apears to be working.

Brian

 

[34Hatt]

There is basically one thing in fuel aditives that makes a differance you can see smell feel and hear and that is the cetane improver. The reason Diesel Kleen is so popular is because of that. As for the other stuff that's in the aditives I don't know if it does any good or not but improving the cetane # definetly does especialy in older engines with high wear. Is that masking the problem? Maybe but it does improve performance and fuel economy and reduces strain on the engine. Cetane improvers are usually ethyl nitrate you can buy dedicated improvers with no other aditives. I don't think you can make the cetane# to high the aditive gets you to the highest point and stops no matter how much more you ad. A cetane improver will lose some of it's efect if the fuel sits in the tank for months so the best way to use it is to ad it in lesser quantities before using the boat as oposed to putting in greater quantities one time.

The other thing to consider is biocides I use the enzyme type Startron when I ad fuel. Does it do anything? Who knows. We have a storage tank at work that developed an alge problem we cleaned the tank and since then started using the Startron and it apears to be working.

Brian

Yup all true with the cetane and the AJX has it and will clean up even a problem that the starton can't. They use enzyme to break it down. AJX uses a micro organism that is actually developed and used for this many of the other companys have tried to duplicate it but could not so they went with enzyme's.

 

[Passages]

Don't forget to slap an Algae-X or some other magnets on the fuel line.

I'm still trying to figure those gizmos out. I spoke to the Algea-x guy at the Miami Boat Show and it sounded too good to be true. Then spoke to the guys at the Detroit Diesel booth and they are now pushing them.

Genesis did some research a few years back - I think it was called "Snake Oil Chronicles".

 

[34Hatt]

I'm still trying to figure those gizmos out. I spoke to the Algea-x guy at the Miami Boat Show and it sounded too good to be true. Then spoke to the guys at the Detroit Diesel booth and they are now pushing them.

What magnets due is change the charge of the fuel particles all the same charge particles group together and the Magnets separate them for better filtering. It not Voodoo or snake oil the is done in the sciencetific community every day. AJX has them also and don't need to be plumb in line. The due help somewhat but nothing like the additive. There have been some post on the magnets here also that can be searched.

 

[johngalt]

Folks, hrer is an additional question for you, although not about additives , but the fuel itself. I run detroit 8v53s and the question is; what fuel is better, the new low sulpher content diesel or regular #2 fuel oil ? I have heard opinions leaning both ways and would like an informed opinion before fuelling up for the season. Can anyone help? Bruce

 

[John Dickson]

Ok, what is IMHO?

 

[dougl33]

In My Humble Opinion

 

[SKYCHENEY]

You probably won't find any fuel now except low sulfer and ultra-low sulfer. The ULSD is supposed to have lubricity additives in it to make up for the lack of sulfer, but I would add some Diesel Kleen anyway, just to be safe.

 

[Traveler 45C]

Diesel Kleen has made a significant difference for me.

Were you using it on Gig at every fill up?