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Planned Obsolescence

  • Thread starter Thread starter JLR
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JLR

JLR

Legendary Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
3,237
Hatteras Model
74' COCKPIT MY (1995 - 1999)
Okay. I'll admit it. I am in a crappy mood. But, with that said, I'd like to start a thread on things on our boats to avoid due to poor design. Maybe others will make a few less mistakes than I. I'll start. First, the air conditioning pumps on my boat seem to need replacing every three years or so. I do not consider these maintenance items like impellers, zincs, stators, etc. It turns out that the metal impellers inside basically rust out. Either stainless or even plastic impellers would last much, much longer. So, at about 1K per pump or less for the kit, you might want to know what the impeller is made of when you replace your next pump. Second, and although not specific to Hatteras, it relates to a Yamaha 90 hp two stroke dink engine. I have been fiddling with the linkage on my outboard for about two years. I have replaced the cables several times and a few other items. Turns out the shift shaft is the problem. Yamaha apparently used a steel shift shaft -- not a stainless steel shift shaft but rather just a plain old steel shaft. Any guess what happens to steel when it hits salt water. You bettcha. 1K later and I expect to have a new shift shaft. Problem is, the darn engine is probably only worth 3K. More planned obsolescence. So, if you have a product to avoid or can enlighten us on something on your boat that should just be avoided, please fess up. We can all learn for each others' mistakes.
 
JLR said:
Okay. I'll admit it. I am in a crappy mood. But, with that said, I'd like to start a thread on things on our boats to avoid due to poor design. Maybe others will make a few less mistakes than I. I'll start. First, the air conditioning pumps on my boat seem to need replacing every three years or so. I do not consider these maintenance items like impellers, zincs, stators, etc. It turns out that the metal impellers inside basically rust out. Either stainless or even plastic impellers would last much, much longer. So, at about 1K per pump or less for the kit, you might want to know what the impeller is made of when you replace your next pump. Second, and although not specific to Hatteras, it relates to a Yamaha 90 hp two stroke dink engine. I have been fiddling with the linkage on my outboard for about two years. I have replaced the cables several times and a few other items. Turns out the shift shaft is the problem. Yamaha apparently used a steel shift shaft -- not a stainless steel shift shaft but rather just a plain old steel shaft. Any guess what happens to steel when it hits salt water. You bettcha. 1K later and I expect to have a new shift shaft. Problem is, the darn engine is probably only worth 3K. More planned obsolescence. So, if you have a product to avoid or can enlighten us on something on your boat that should just be avoided, please fess up. We can all learn for each others' mistakes.
Click to expand...

Not a problem, but a solution for you and others: I have a single pump for four AC units. It is one that the crabbers use for keeping salt water flowing to shedding pens. I believe I bought it from Grainger and specified a bronze pump head with a stainless impeller and shaft. After 9-10 years it is going strong. Just needed to R&R a seal in that time.

Bobk
 
For many models, yamaha (or aftermarket) make a stainless steel shift shaft.

As for the pump, are you using a March magnetic drive pump? The seem to last forever.
 
Yamaha learned some of that trick from Mercury. We had to pull my friend's Merc apart to fix a frozen steering tube and there's no reasonable way to do it. The entire engine has to come apart. If it wasn't DIY the labor probably would have exceeded the book value of the engine.

Then he got a boat with Yamahas and we had to replace the rotted tiller arm on one. Same lousy design. Powerhead, lower unit, exhaust housing, everything had to come off. The only thing left was the bracket. The one salvation was that the engines had previously been apart and someone was professional enough to use anti-seize. Why were they apart? To replace the rotting steel shift rods with stainless ones.
 
I know that Yamaha makes what the call an enduro model that is supposed to be for saltwater, I wonder if the parts you are talking about are any better in that model? And don't get me started on planned obsolescence in computers and electronics made today. John
 
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/kingpumps_2267_42734473

I would suspect you and I have the same AC pumps. Orberdorfers M109's. Mine have been bullet proof...but I'm in fresh water. They should go way past a year before a new seal and impeller is needed. But they are serviceable and parts redily available. Now if you could fix that 1k each thing, I'd be impressed!
 
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No rust in fresh water. That would solve both problems.
 
Scarlett said:
I know that Yamaha makes what the call an enduro model that is supposed to be for saltwater, I wonder if the parts you are talking about are any better in that model? And don't get me started on planned obsolescence in computers and electronics made today. John
Click to expand...

If I recall correctly, the graphics on mine say "Saltwater Series".
 
bobk said:
Not a problem, but a solution for you and others: I have a single pump for four AC units. It is one that the crabbers use for keeping salt water flowing to shedding pens. I believe I bought it from Grainger and specified a bronze pump head with a stainless impeller and shaft. After 9-10 years it is going strong. Just needed to R&R a seal in that time.

Bobk
Click to expand...

Bob, do you have a part number or label on that pump you are using for AC water supply?
 
On another AC cooling pump problem. Serious advice for boat builders. Keep the AC pumps out of the engine room. Most all units for four or more AC units, use air cooled Class "B" electric motors. Max ambient temperature is 104 degrees F. My engine room runs around 120 degrees F. Bottom line, the warmer it gets outside, the hotter the engine room gets, the greater the duty cycle on the pump motor, resulting in thermal shutdown on those really hot days you need all the AC you have got.

Pete
 
While I am at it, keep all the wiring, except that required for overhead lights, out of the space above permanently installed headliners. Raceways are wonderful items as are dedicated empty space in raceways with pull wires installed.

Pete
 
How about those motorized large ray line searchlights. How many of those joy sticks still function properly? Mine never did on any boat I ever owned.
 
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OK...most of our boats are 30+years old. Surely no one reasonably expects things to work for 30 years.

OTOH, lots of things do. Our OEM A/C units are working fine...and yes, they are in the engine rooms. ;) Our OEM water heater lasted 33 years before starting to seep. The OEM waste hoses were doing fine at 30+ until I decided to pro-actively replace them with modern hose...which lasted 2 years; I replaced them with the OEM exhaust hose. The OEM ac pump still works perfectly; I put a rebuild kit in it a couple of years ago, it was working fine but I was being proactive. Being proactive worked fine with the pump as opposed to the waste hose.

The elec wiring on our '80 53MY meets the current ABYC recommendations for wiring.

The Original Rayline searchlight/controls works fine as well. All it needs is some maint (lubrication) now and then...like any mechanical device.

IMO, these boats were WAY over-engineered. Yes, there are some oddities. Like why did hatt NOT install vented loops in the heads when the instructions from Galley maid says they are requires. OTOH, if the stators/rotors are in good condition, there doesn't seem to be any issue with NOT having vented loops.

How long SHOULD an original component last with no maint/attention? ;)
 
we have 2 AC pumps, because if I lose all 4 air cons in the summertime, someone is going to the ritz carlton.
I have 2 strainers too, since I can't stand to clean one at the wrong time. More valves and hose, but sure helps when things don't work.
Happened last summer. OEM cruisair pump seized, valved over to oberforfer from depco, flipped switch on my box, and presto, flowing sea water again.
4 air cons on 1 pump, without a backup in warm climates seems optimistic. the cost of a 2nd pump when you don't need it is WAAY less than trying to get one in a remote spot, or a peak holiday.
Having owned sailboats with NO room for anything, I like our designs that include the room for redundancy options..
 
Mike, I think that one could reasonably expect a lot of this stuff to stop working after 30 years. What would be nice would be making it easier to replace. A lot of the wiring and plumbing in my boat is difficult to get to. For example, the quarter-fenders are made of wood, and were bolted to the hull before the fuel tanks were put in. They are not removable except by cutting off the bolts, pushing them inside the hull, and vacuuming up the remnants of them. Okay, how often do you change them- but if they had been made of FRP they would have been glassed to the hull as a permanent feature and not require replacement.

Some of the things that were changed in later years on the 36C are useful criticisms of the original design. For example, on my boat, the exhaust ports are metal fabrications which are bolted into the transom with sealant. Later boats just had FRP tubes glassed into the hull, which is a much better arrangement.

That said, the original title here is "planned obsolescence". That might be a bit harsh, actually; it is hard to say how long they expected the boats to last. I suspect (no proof) that the originators of the Hatteras brand didn't think that 90% of the boats would still be around after nearly sixty years, but who knows? they probably didn't think about it.
 
The March model most people us is water cooled, magnetic drive. Pretty robust.
 
I don't think this thread is about the boat she themselves but some of the equipment. Indeed mt of our hatts are 20, 30, 40 years old and they held up pretty well.

Problem is some of the new stuff where manufacturers are either cutting corners and quality or coming with just poor designs. Compare teh life span of the old blue cruisair equipment with the stuff produced in the last 10/15 years...

Yamaha usually makes he best outboards and that is the reason you almost always see a Yamaha on mission critical boats like launches, yacht tenders, utility boats, etc... almost never mercury. Yet, they will screw it up once in a while.

I also have had issue with desingrating impellers on air con pumps. The housing maybe bronze but the impellers are not. Ridiculous when selling a products designed for marine air con. March is the way to go... and yes the plastic impeller can break after 5 to 6 years but you can replace it in minutes by pulling the cover.
 
Pascal is right on the money. While my quality electronics seem to last forever, when I had Rule bilge pump float switches, it was just the opposite.
 
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