Penray 2015 Off-Line Cooling Syst Cleaner

[Traveler 45C]

I've searched everywhere, no one has it (not ever Saunders in Al Karl). Does anyone have a source for this stuff?

It's still carried on Penray's website so I don't think it's been discontinued.

 

[Genesis]

The EPA had a shizfit about it from what I understand. What 'ya need it for? Having the cooler cores ultrasonic'd won't do it?

 

[Angela]

Stop wasting time looking for that. I looked high and low for that stuff last summer, and KarL's right...it's gone.

The online cleaner is still available.

 

[Traveler 45C]

Damn, I think I’ll have a shizfit!

Got a temp problem. I’ve got the new water pump ready to go on and I want to clean the syst before adding the new coolant (dist wtr and SCA’s).

I found rust in the HE to wtr pump coolant pipe. Cleaning only the cores is an idea but what about the rest of the syst? What about any crud that might have attached to the liners and other surfaces? To do it ‘right’, those have got to be cleaned also.

So, what’s the new best stuff to use? I could use the on-line cleaner (if they still make that ) but would rather get it done now rather than having the run the eng’s all month, which is not the best option at this time.

 

[Traveler 45C]

Saunder’s still carries it in their computer syst, not on the shelf. Parts guy is doing some research to see if he can get it for me.

 

[Traveler 45C]

FOUND IT!!!

Total Truck Parts, 778 N.W. 57th Court, Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33309. (954) 772-0050. http://www.totaltruckparts.net/

They had 8 on the shelf, now they have 7. I’ll be flushing this weekend. Water pump goes on this afternoon.

I’m a happy boater!

 

[Traveler 45C]

When using this stuff (the Off-Line Cleaner) do the T-stats need to come out?

 

[Traveler 45C]

Hasn’t anybody out there used this stuff?

 

[Avenger]

Well, probably a day late and a dollar short but I finally have an answer for you. The short answer is no. Penray says to run the engines for 2 hrs (Penray specifies at idle) with the first chemical (2010, I think) at 160º to 190º. So the thermostats should be in and open so you'll get full coolant circulation.

A word of warning. I just did this on one of my engines yesterday, and it is about the most miserable stuff to work with that I have ever seen. And I've seen a lot. It comes as a powder that has to be mixed in a bucket, then poured into the engine. If you breathe the dust you'll be tasting it all day. Use in a WELL ventilated area. It doesn't really dissolve so much as suspend so you've got to stir it until your arm about falls off. I recommend at least a six-pack for the two hour idle time. It will help get rid of some of the chemical taste.

After running two hours, it has to cool and then be drained. It smells even worse when it's hot and steaming. Flushed with water for 3-5 min. Then filled with 2011, again pre-mixed in a bucket. This doesn't smell anywhere near as bad. Or at least I don't think it did. I couldn't taste my dinner last night either, so who knows. Run for 15 minutes, then drained and flushed again. Then you have to find a way to get rid of all that stuff without creating a Superfund site.

To be fair. Some horrible stuff came out of that engine (and not just the Penray stuff) In this case I really had no better alternative since running the on-line cleaner for a month wasn't practical considering the other work the engines need. But if you have the option, the online cleaner is the way to go. I am dreading doing the other engine, and I swear I'll sell the boat before I ever repeat this process. On the plus side it's a good incentive to keep up with cooling system maintenance. However, I think this may be the one time that the EPA is right.

Did I just say that?.. those chemicals must be worse than I thought.

 

[Genesis]

The online cleaner doesn't do much of anything; I've used it and was not impressed. Perhaps in an OTR truck it is ok, but IMHO on a marine engine its pretty worthless.

The offline stuff is NASTY and the first question is whether you really need it. 9 times out of 10, unless you've had something bad happen the problem is in the H/E core and having that utrasonic'd will take care of it.

The exception is if you've really got a lot of scale and crud inside the motor's cooling jackets. In this case the offline cleaner is useful.

 

[Traveler 45C]

Yuk! That stuff was nasty. I was a sight on the dock trying to mix the first part up, goggles, mask and gloves. It looked like a HAZMAT area. I was worried someone was gonna’ turn me in.

Superfund sight…Funny! My crazy neighbors who keep me up all night partying got all 32 gallons of it in their new Hot Tub. They’ll never notice it…I’m kidding…

It was nasty stuff and a long process to go through. The stuff stunk up the boat. It came out of the eng looking very scary, an awful shade of green. I couldn’t wait to give it to my neighbor…

I went through this because I didn’t know how long it’s been since it was last cleaned. Next time I’ll run the On-Line stuff. It’s for routing maint, not a full scale cleanup like I did. I’ll have to use to boat a lot, oh-well.

While I was at it I R/R’d the petcocks with ball valves. That made draining the eng’s much cleaner and faster. Hook up a hose, open the valve and the fluid flowed right into a 5 gal bucket. No moor messing with drip pans and measuring cups, transferring to larger and larger containers. That was a drag! The Port eng took me over 2 hrs to drain because of nearly zero access. Not any more!

 

[Brian Degulis]

I Have 9 Kits there around $125 ea plus shipping from Palmetto FL

Brian

 

[Angela]

It comes as a powder that has to be mixed in a bucket, then poured into the engine. If you breathe the dust you'll be tasting it all day. Use in a WELL ventilated area. It doesn't really dissolve so much as suspend so you've got to stir it until your arm about falls off. I recommend at least a six-pack for the two hour idle time. It will help get rid of some of the chemical taste.

I'm working on this NOW. It's like trying to dissolve sand and gravel into water. Just taking a break from the stirring. I think I'll let the sun heat up the witch's brew that's in the bucket and see if it dissolves any easier in warm water. Otherwise, this stuff just is not dissolving. I may have to shovel it down the radiator hole with a spoon.

Armed with goggles and a respirator based upon the good advice I learned here, I have not had the pleasure of smelling or tasting it.

 

[Angela]

I'm waiting for the engine to cool so I can remove the radiator cap. It's been 1.5 hours and it's still under pressure. There is water in the overflow can and it's bubbling. I've never seen that before. Is that normal? Or is the bubbling just the witch's brew that is still going crazy on the crud?

The instructions said to idle the engine for 2 hours and indicated that it should be somewhere between 160° and 190°. I could only get it up to just under 150° and I did a fast idle, too. Maybe I should not have cleaned the raw water side first.

I won't really know whether I've cured our heat problem on this engine until we take her out for a spin. This is the engine that ran hotter than the other one by about 10°, consistently. Before we replaced the seacocks, strainers, and hoses, she attempted to overheat at just a modest pace. After changing out all that stuff, she never got near 190° again, but is still running hotter than the other. I don't know what that engine would do at 20 knots if I had to run her that hard.

That's what I'm trying to fix - I want both engines to run the same. Maybe that will never happen, but the cleaning I'm doing can't hurt.

Oh yeah...once I turned off the engines..that stuff has really stunk up the boat. It's a sickening smell.

 

[Angela]

Traveler and Scrod: Yes, this was PURE EVIL. Got some instant advice from Genesis during the process when I had a delimma about flushing and couldn't reach anyone. Glad it's over and I'm draining Pure Evil Part 2 now. Pascal and Naomi are coming by to take me away from what smells like a holding tank right now, for a little bit. When I get back, I'll flush, and flush, and flush. Pure Evil #2 drained out black, black, black.

Pascal says, "We need to go for a sea trial to check her out!" I agree. Fuel dock and bridge/quasi-helecoptor photos! And a thorough flushing of the bilges after a gallon of Tide sloshing around in there.

The smell...you guys were spot on....the smell...worse than Montezuma's Revenge after a bean burrito-eating contest. This was far beyond my expectations, and I'm SO happy it's OVER. All I have left to do is flush, and flush, and flush, and flush, then mix up my DD additive/distilled water. Piece of cake.

If I NEVER have to do this again, I will NOT be disappointed. However, if I DO have to do it again...only on MY boat (not someone else's), I will....because I love this boat. For anyone else, I say this - "call your mechanic!" There are some things you will only do for yourself. This is one of them.

Cheers to a clean engine!

 

[Avenger]

Well, congratulations on surviving the experience. You're now a proud member of an exclusive club that nobody wants to join.

Re: Stirring. On the second engine we ended up using a paint stirrer attachment for a drill. Not perfect, but better.

Hopefully you've solved your problem, and now you've got a good excuse to take a boat ride. Not that it requires an excuse.

But I have two questions: Did you check or change your thermostats to make sure you've a: got the right ones, b: got working ones?

The other question is...are you saying you only did one engine? What about the other one? They'll be mismatched. One clean the other...????

You only get 50% membership benefits if you don't do them both.

 

[Angela]

The other engine is MUCH cleaner. When I drain it once a year, there is never is any dirt or anying in it. It comes out perfectly clear purple. And that other engine did not have the temp creep that I'm trying to solve. I have not yet put new thermostats in there, but I have them.

50% membership is enough for me.

 

[Traveler 45C]

What is funny here is that when the email arrived in my inbox for this thread and I noticed the Subject line, 'Penray 2015 Off-Line Cooling Syst Cleaner', I instantly had total recall on that smell.

I never want to go through that again.

Congrats and welcome to the club.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I hope I never have to go through this. Of all the descriptions of boating problems I have ever read on this or any other site, this is the most graphic and the worst. And I work in emergency rooms. I can't imagine what this stuff is like- and I don't want to. What's in it?

 

[Traveler 45C]

It’s the smell, just horribly sickening. Ya’ get the feeling, instinctively I guess, that it’s just bad for ya’, makes ya’ want to get away from it. It also looks quite nasty when draining it out of the engines.

Hot, nasty liquid with sickening vapors.

The warning label advises against inhaling the powder when mixing but doesn’t say anything that I recall about toxic vapors.