Peel job in South Florida

[tomrealest]

I am planning on biting the bullet and getting a peel job on my 1978 58' Yachtfish this spring. What I'm hearing is that after the job is done, enclose the bottom to the ground sealed tight and put a bunch of dehumidifiers in the enclosure to dry it out. I expect it to take a while to get it dried out.
I'm interested in hearing advice and recommendations. I got a quote last spring of around $15,000 for everything from the haul out to the finished job except for being on the hard for more than two months.
My main concerns are having the job done correctly, what to put on the bottom after it's dried out and of course the best price I can get for an outstanding job.

 

[REBrueckner]

What is your concept of "peeling"? What is your objective? What makes you think you need such a major job done?

Suggest you search here on Sams for past posts. You might also call Hatteras or Slanes and see what they recommend. Also read David Pascoe on this subject for general information and reviews on any vintages Hatts he has online.

Delamination of hand laid up old Hatts is very very rare unlike chopper type bottoms. So a majority of blisters are unimportant on these boats. Many who might recommend or urge such work know too little about Hatts in particular.

You can also read posts here on what conditions make such work adviseable and those which are unimportant. Very often "blisters" on these old Hatts are best left alone....beware because the "cure" may be worse than the ailment if done improperly.

Too many of these blister repair jobs DO NOT LAST...so for my two cents, get advice from those who have had work done with proven longevity....use a yard/facility with proven results, then find what was done and the materials used.

There are recommended standard moisture contents for fiberglass which must be achieved by drying before repair commences...maybe around 15% or lower, but do NOT take that as a good figure...I have posted a figure here on Sams previously.... get a current recommendation. be sure you know what these are for the products being utilized and are in fact achieved....Ask the yard to provide such results, and better yet, observe that final moisture test before repairs begin. Checking moisture content via a moisture meter is essential. Applying new product over a damp bottom is a fools errand.

 

[bobk]

I would use a good vinyl ester resin to rebuild the barrier coat. That means using a VE fairing compound too where necessary. As thick as the bottom is, I suspect there is no reason to replace the glass you are removing in the peel, unless you have to get real deep. Be sure the yard washes the bottom thoroughly before they start the drying process. And by the way, fans will help speed the drying. You can use a moisture meter to follow the progress.

Bob

 

[MikeP]

Don't bother with this; it's just a waste of money on these boats. They are known for blisters and they are also known for the blisters being no issue at all for anything other than cosmetics. And since you can't see it at all with the boat in the water...

As per REB's post, do the research - Pascoe has a lot of info re blisters and Hatts. Further, a bad bottom job can create problems on the boat whereas the Hatt blisters do not.

 

[Angela]

When we first got Sanctuary, we contacted Hatteras about this kind of thing and were advised by them not to do that.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I did a bunch of research when we bought our boat as well. We got several quotes and told one yard to go ahead and do it. Then they tried to double the price on me after they had the boat in their shop. I told them to forget it and have done nothing since. This was 5 years ago and the bottom looks better now than it did then. Of course, it sits on a heated floor for 5 month/yr now, so that is probably why it has "fixed itself".

 

[saltshaker]

Are you trying to repair blisters or are you just removing years of paint build up? If the bottom is ok except for some blisters, leave it alone or just fix any open areas. If you have a lot of paint build up you can sand blast it but make sure who ever does it knows how to do a light job. You can do more damage by opening up the bottom from heavy blasting. I would soda blast it as it is much easier on the fiberglass. Peeling the bottom is usually done when major blisters and water penetration are evident. I had a friend do this to a 42' Post but that was after 2 previous bottom jobs and wet blisters. They took off a bit of glass and then built it back up with Vinyl Ester. He paid 13K to do the whole job back in 1999.

 

[67hat34c]

Total bottom peel would appear to be a waste. Have it soda blasted and sanded smooth and fix problem blisters and put new paint on it and use the boat.

 

[spindrift]

Dear Tom

There have been several threads on this topic. Some of this forum's members will probably continue to advise you to leave well enough alone.

I have done two peel and repair jobs on two different boats during the past 15 years. I had excellent results at both yards.

I would refer you to an article in Power and Motor yacht that was written in either the winter / spring of 2008. I have sighted it in another thread. The yard mentioned in the Chessie specializes in osmosis repairs. I spoke with them and they really seem to be experts on the process. It appears that the key is to get the boat completely dry after the removal of bottom paint and gelcoat.

The barrier coat of choice now is vinylaster resin rather than epoxy as it is more impervious to water intrusion.


The price quoted to you of 15k seems on the low end of the range. Prices seem to be on either side of 20k based on if any of the actual hull laminate has to be replaced. Sometimes this is not evident until the removal process begins.

I have bought boats in Florida and am not too keen on any of the smaller yards there as work tends to be substandard. As you know, there are great yards there such as Merrit, Rybovich Spencer, and Hinckley. But these yards charge an arm and a leg. Thus, why don't you talk to the specialized yard in the Chessie , get a firm quote (they have done bottom jobs on lots of Hatts) and follow Pascal north when he heads up in the spring. I bet he knows all of the good bistros along the inter-coastal!

Cheers
Spin

 

[MikeP]

"Some of this forum's members will probably continue to advise you to leave well enough alone. "

Yep, I'm one of them. READ all the Pascoe stuff about this and before you spend any money, be sure you understand and are comfortable with the fact that you are spending money for the cosmetic appearance of the boat in a position where nobody can ever see it. Also, do not directly compare what other boats have done re blisters; only read about how it affects these Hatteras boats. Having blister work done on a Hatt because they do it on a Searay or a Viking or a Bertram, or a whatever is not relevant.

That being said, if you want the work done for cosmetic reasons, that is, of course, totally your business. Sure, it'll look better out of the water without any blisters and their presence will be cause for a buyer to demand a price reduction. Yes, I know they don't matter but if you were selling me your Hatt and it has blisters, I'd be pointing them out! But just be sure to understand that there is a huge difference between blistering on some boats, which is/becomes a structural issue, and blistering on Hatts which is/does not.

As noted, there is a lot of info about this and if you are feeling that because this is a Hatt site, folks like me are "defending" them in some way, look at independent sites like Pascoe who has extensive articles about blistering, it's causes and cures, AND the fact that it is not an issue on Hatts other than cosmetic.

 

[Tim Powell]

"Some of this forum's members will probably continue to advise you to leave well enough alone. "

Yep, I'm one of them. READ all the Pascoe stuff about this and before you spend any money, be sure you understand and are comfortable with the fact that you are spending money for the cosmetic appearance of the boat in a position where nobody can ever see it. Also, do not directly compare what other boats have done re blisters; only read about how it affects these Hatteras boats. Having blister work done on a Hatt because they do it on a Searay or a Viking or a Bertram, or a whatever is not relevant.

That being said, if you want the work done for cosmetic reasons, that is, of course, totally your business. Sure, it'll look better out of the water without any blisters and their presence will be cause for a buyer to demand a price reduction. Yes, I know they don't matter but if you were selling me your Hatt and it has blisters, I'd be pointing them out! But just be sure to understand that there is a huge difference between blistering on some boats, which is/becomes a structural issue, and blistering on Hatts which is/does not.

As noted, there is a lot of info about this and if you are feeling that because this is a Hatt site, folks like me are "defending" them in some way, look at independent sites like Pascoe who has extensive articles about blistering, it's causes and cures, AND the fact that it is not an issue on Hatts other than cosmetic.

I HAVE A 45 C AND I HAVE FOUND U TO BE ABSOLUTELY CORRECTTHIS IS THE 5 HAT I HAVE HAD ANDALL HAVE HAD SOME SORT OF BLISTERS SO NOT FIX THEM THEY GET WORSE THE 2ND TIME......

 

[spartonboat1]

If you are absolutely sure you have blisters and are certain you wish to repair and barrier coat, some comments.

I had my bottom 'peeled' (see below), blister repaired (not sure if I really had any to speak of - 1972 DCMY), barrier coated with Interlux Interprotect 2000 'epoxy' barrier coat, and repainted. I closely inspect annually and have seen no evidence of any blisters. They did NOT repair my keel, which was dinged up bit over the years. Extra cost I guess and not the best yard IMHO, although a Hatt dealer.

I think it cost $8k (43') and if I had it to do again, I might have tried to do it myself, but that was in my early my days of ownership and I was 'throwing money' at the boat.

I really like the Interlux 2000, because if I see evidence that it has worn away, it is very easy to re-apply and builds fast, yet has a very long pot life, making it easy to work with. For me, it can get worn away where debris floating down in the river lodges between the hull and dock and rubs on the hull. Also, I am converting to Interlux VC-17 (laborious process!), and they now have a barrier coat to apply under VC-17.

Means to strip all old bottom paint includes:
> Sand blasting- fairly fast, but allow only very experience party to do it, as 10 seconds inattention can burrow into the hull causing damage...which then must be repaired and who knows if it will be as good. Plus, do you think they will tell you if they had such as issue?
> Soda Blasting dry- effective and less invasive than sand blasting.
> Soda Blasting wet- not as effective, as really well bonded paint will not be removed. Sanding may be required.
> 'Peeling'- I wonder how effective this is, because the peeling machine requires a nice clear area to allow the peeling blades to have nice clear area to get at the hull. There are posts that question if this method reduces hull strength, since some of the gel coat is stripped off.
> Pure old brute force (on part of yard hand) hand sanding via power sanding. Haven't heard this method being used much, if at all.

Good site for blister work description and outtake:
http://www.zahnisers.com/repair/blister/blister1.htm

The West System people are based here in MI. Here is their blister site:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/repairing-individual-and-early-stage-gelcoat-blisters/

Peeling Description:
=================================================
We now use a tool that has become commonly known as a Peeler. It cuts the gelcoat and laminate off like an electric planer. It is a hand held tool that can take off measured thickness plus or minus .010". The hull after laminate removal is left quite smooth, requiring only moderate sanding. The cutting tool is a much cleaner operation in comparison with grinding and sandblasting, both for the boat and interior as well as for the environment. The removed fiberglass is captured beneath the boat in a water slurry, strained and disposed of safely. The advent of the modern "peeler" tool was the final piece in the repair puzzle and revolutionized the repair process. It made it possible to remove laminate precisely and translate the information determined in the PROFILE into a repair reality.

The peeler crew carefully works to specifications established in the Profile, uniformly removing the deteriorated laminate. Following peeling, areas that could not be reached by the peeler are taken down by hand with grinders. .
=======================================================

Finally, if you choose to do it, if at all possible, arrange to be brought in after all the old paint has been removed, so the yard can '...show you the blister's ...(sorry, not the money- they get that!). Then get called back, to show the repairs, before its painted. They could also show you the state of the hull moisture, by applying their moisture meter while you are there.

If you arrange to be brought in during the process it give you a frame of reference as to where your $15k is going and where it was needed. Also, if you have any through-hull leaks, even the smallest, have them re-bedded, while the hull drying, or after it is dry, but before the stripping.

My long 2CW...

 

[Boatsb]

Some people are convinced they need to do these jobs for the betterment of the vessels. Maybe a peel job will give you a small increase in performance or looks but on a Hatt there is so much glass there is no reason to get separated from a bunch of your money for such a small return BUT if you think it is something you want to do go ahead and help the local economy.

I can find other things to do with the remainder of my disposable income but to each his own.

 

[Pete]

Tom, please describe what the blistering looks like. Take a typical one square foot area and tell us what you see. How many blisters, what size range, are they weeping brown liquid or not, how much elevation off the fair line (before the area blistered. There are a variety of blistering problems and depending on what you have the options vary. Peeling is a last resort step in my opinion, since the mat layer on these boat bottoms is thick, lots of material must be removed to get to the structural glass, and getting the boat bottom fair again is very difficult if not impossible. For now lets hear what you are dealing with.

Pete

 

[stormchaser]

I got a quote last spring of around $15,000 for everything from the haul out to the finished job except for being on the hard for more than two months.

That seems incredibly cheap. The peal job on my Catalina 30 was $12,500 back in 1999 and the one on Saraswati was about $25,000 a few years back.