Opinions ??? Refrigerators, Freezers, Combos...

[spcoolin]

I notice here that folks are looking into new/replacement refrigerators...It is true that most of you have older design boxes, and finding a replacement to fit can be troublesome...

While keeping an open mind...Maybe thinking "Outside the Box" so to speak...Even the possibility of 2 boxes instead of one (2 boxes can eliminate the getting it thru the door problem) Also boxes that will run on 12/24 volt DC, plus run on 115 AC...I'd like some opinions of what might interest Hatt owners as well as others...

The question here is: If you were considering replacement...What would you be inclined to replace your existing box with ?

I'm thinking of adding refrigerators to my site, and I am looking at other brands (as well as Dometic) below are some links to check out models:

Isotherm (They built Tundra before Dometic went to Mexico then the plant caught fire)
http://www.indelwebastomarine.com/Products/Fridges_and_Freezers/en/html/9913.html

Vitrifrigo (Some of these are very nice boxes)
http://www.vfamerica.com/eng/about-us.asp#

Dometic (Since the fire...They no longer offer a apartment size box)
http://www.dometic.com/enus/Americas/USA/Marine/Refrigerators/

Thanks for your thoughts...

Steve~

 

[yachtsmanbill]

That sounds great Steve, but Id like to add a point taken from the previous thred... remotely mounted compressors are a bit quieter than the built ins, and I do know the new stuff is pretty quiet, but on my Roamer it was an issue of heat. The OEM was a remote job, and the newer dorm style is in situ. When it runs, the heat boils off the back and really adds to AC performance, or lack there of. I built a duct off the back with a square computer fan that pulls the hot air down into the bilge and it only runs when the compressor runs.
Even the sub has a side by side that makes its' share of warm air. Just a point to ponder! ws

 

[spcoolin]

That sounds great Steve, but Id like to add a point taken from the previous thred... remotely mounted compressors are a bit quieter than the built ins, and I do know the new stuff is pretty quiet, but on my Roamer it was an issue of heat. The OEM was a remote job, and the newer dorm style is in situ. When it runs, the heat boils off the back and really adds to AC performance, or lack there of. I built a duct off the back with a square computer fan that pulls the hot air down into the bilge and it only runs when the compressor runs.
Even the sub has a side by side that makes its' share of warm air. Just a point to ponder! ws

That's very true Bill, and it has always been the biggest Killer of the Norcold's (It's why we call them No Colds) that little 40 watt swing compressor without fan forced ventilation (like the ones I linked that use the Danfoss compressors) and installed in a cabinet with little to no ventilation in a boat that is closed up most of the time...Just can't handle it well...At least down here...

Even with household boxes...Getting that heat out is an issue...And the better it's done...The better Any box will perform...

The brands I linked have remote options...Some are & some are not remote condensing units...

Some are also liquid cooled with no pump to wear out or strainer to clean (Isotherm calls it self pumping) simply by changing the sink drain thru hull & the refrigerant runs thru that new thru hull (sink still drains thru it)...The other brand (Vitrifrigo) offers a keel type cooler....All this means No heat in the cabin or anywhere else...The drawback to these ?...You can't run them on the hill...

But the ones that have a seawater condenser & pump...Can be run on the hill by turning the pump off, and letting the air cooled condenser do the job...It's all trade offs...

Steve~

 

[rsmith]

The remote compressors might work in a MY but in a SF they turn into a bucket of rot in the ER or under the back deck. SF suck a lot of salt spray thru the engine room and the lack of ventilation under the back deck is just as bad. I used to get about 7 years out of the condencer for my bait freezer which is under the back deck. I finaly found a small self contained chest freezer to replace it that fit in the tackle center.I did a uncle willy mod on it too with a radio shak fan and plenum across the back coils.

 

[GJH]

I had occasion to look into this with a buddy who was in need, as well as when I was thinking of taking a different approach for my aft deck set up. We came away with a strong preference for the Iso-therms and he has been very happy in the intervening 3 years. Vitrifrigo looked good too.

We also liked the idea of building custom boxes, which would work best for my situation. The best, in our opinion was the Glacier Bay stuff :

http://www.glacierbay.com/micro_hybrid_plate_system.asp

It is really designed for boat use. I liked that I could do a refridge, a freezer and a small air conditioner back there off the same system. Maybe someday..

As for traditional household refridgerators, I think the "counter depth" units, pioneered by Sub Zero and now offered by many others, make a lot of sense, both because of space and form factor (thin), and having the condensor, etc up top and not in the back. Our boat came to us with a big Sub Zero side by side that's been terrific and is very easy to maintain and service. Of course, having an 18'2" beam and lots of headroom doesn't hurt:

 

[dastahl]

George's galley is like the rest of his boat, very nice.

Steve,
The Admiral says the side-by-sides that would fit in out LRC even with the higher cabinet do not hold enough and have very small spaces. You can't put a pizza in one ):. To keep the doors from swinging out to far she is looking at the relatively new stye french door boxes. How would you use two units, there is not that much storage under counter in the Hatteras galleys I have seen?

I would definetly consider a custom made refer in the galley space. Or two units, but I have to get it by the admiral. I will show her the web pages.
Also it seems most of the new household refers have ice makers. I do not think we will have a regular marine ice maker on this boat. Instead a beverage cooler or wine cooler.

We will most likely add a drawer type freezer in the mechanics room (the one bunk hall type room leading to the ER on a 58 lrc). Many LRCs came with sub zero freezers built in as an option by Hatteras. I don't have those but would like a modern drawer version.

Skooch
58 LRC Hull 308

 

[OBXTucker]

David,
We have a GE side by side on Kismet that holds a ton of stuff (including pizza's). Also includes front dispensing water/ice. We also have an under counter wine cooler, that doubles as extra storage for sodas/beer). On the FB, we have another small fridge for beer/sodas/water. It's reduces the trips downstairs to only use the head.

Conversely, we have a side by side Subzero at home that the Admiral Hates!! The poor design doesn't allow for anything deep and doesn't hold much, especially considering its size.

Look around, there are plenty of models that will work for our larger boats. As a sidenote, I don't have a clue how the previous owner got this behemoth on board. Removed the salon window frame I guess.....

 

[GJH]

I disagree that it is poor design; you can't achieve counter depth and overall deepness at the same time. So you go for some width. Being designed to be built-in has its advantages on a boat as well. We have had the makings of a full Thanksgiving dinner and food for 10 days in that thing. My wife is a great cook and we don't go out much, especially since we anchor or moor out when cruising. Of course, we do have two wine coolers and an additional freestanding ice maker too...

If you have the height, the works-on-top design as I said is great for maintenance and air movement, plus clearing up floor space and being one less thing to bump into. If something is difficult to maintain, that will often lead to less maintenace and less lifespan. Probably not frequently the right solution for the 15-10s or most galley ups, but a definite consideration.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I'd like to mention Summit refrigerators here. One of our members used them on his previous boat and was very well satisfied with them- two under the counter units, one a freezer, one a fridge. They aren't cheap, but you get what you pay for. Most of the fridges at the hospital, for laboratory, pharmacy and blood bank use, are Summits.

They do not make 12 or 24 volt units AFAIK. These are 110vac only. But their quality is extremely good, and they are available with a lot of custom options. Worth looking at IMHO.

 

[rsmith]

Sub Zee's are designed to be built in and exhaust out the front. Std units are realy supposed to be free standing and exhaust the heat out the back. If you dont duct the heat away it will lose efficency and cook the compressor with hi head pressures. My Sub Zee's are still cranking along after almost 45 years, thats pretty hard to beat.
My wife dosent cook but the crew still likes to eat.

 

[gbharrington]

I just replaced what I believe to be the original frige in my 43DCMY with a Frigidaire FFHT1513LS, 15 cubic foot. It just fits in the original spot although the depth is a litte greater. 120V only but inverter solves that problem. Very quiet and has an energy saver rating. Had to do a little surgery on the saloon doorway, but nothing too radical. Might have been able to bring it in through the saloon window. Needed 27" clearance.

 

[spcoolin]

Ok...I let this go to get the responses without answering...

It got down to where it was on page 2 so I guess I'll bump it back up...

First let me say that I wasn't asking for lack of experience on differing brands of refers but more for what might interest owners if they thought Outside the "Standard Box"

I have worked on many types of refrigeration from the small 12 volt stuff, engine drive hold over systems, restaurant equipment, commercial ice makers, Sub Zeros to 38 cu ft, regular home boxes, wine coolers, flower boxes, walk in coolers, and custom installations etc etc...So I'm fairly familiar with what you guys may have now...I'm just looking for what you might consider....

Let me say that for those considering custom installs...Get out your wallet...and the Admiral's too...But that's not what this thread was about...

Yes ,given some of the units in my links there may be some carpentry needed, and some units could be stacked in the original space, some put side by side, and maybe others would like to just have one box under counter in the galley, and another located elsewhere....

Some of these boxes I linked may be small enough width wise to put two side by side in the original home style box space such as the Vitrifrigos here:
http://www.vfamerica.com/eng/catalog.asp?catid=426&n=oceanwhite

These are also very nice SS boxes that may fit the needs of some (and yes they are available with icemakers)
http://www.vitrifrigo.it/eng/catalog.asp?catid=600&n=oceandrawer

When you get to the pages you can click on the individual box picture to get more info about it...Sorry but you will have to do the metric to US conversions...

What say you all now ???

Steve~

 

[rsmith]

I just cant see the advantage of these drawer units. Especialy on a moving boat. What do you think about the commercial units like True?

 

[spcoolin]

I just cant see the advantage of these drawer units. Especialy on a moving boat. What do you think about the commercial units like True?

The drawers do lock...The advantage to them is the cold does not all fall out the bottom when opening and that can be important especially in a freezer, or if someone runs on batteries...Less time to bring back down to temp after opening.

As far as the True brand commercial units...Memory tells me they were bottom of the line commercial, but they work fine...They are kinda rough finish wise, and I seem to remember trim pieces falling off easily...Also remember them having fiberglass insulation instead of foam...But they could have changed that...

Edit: I think I also remember them using very thin Steel condenser coils...Wouldn't expect them to last any longer than your original Fridgeabar (spelling ?) bait freezer unit...Not good for salt air applications...

Steve~

 

[akintosyali]

Bill,
Love the idea of putting in a fan at the back of the fridge to suck the hot air out. Why did you use a computer CPU fan rather than a 4" fan from HD?

 

[GJH]

The computer fans are very quiet and you can get them in low voltage.

 

[spcoolin]

What is going on here folks ???

If you guys want to talk about fans & air circulation of refrigeration systems I can help with that...If you want to talk about what's great or bad about home boxes...I can help with that....

No...I'm NOT the "Be All End All"....But I do have a good bit of experience that I'm willing to share....

At the risk of no response to this one...If you guys want to talk about fans or commercial refrigeration then start a thread...

I'm asking an honest question here...I don't need or want any other BS....

If you don't want to answer my question or think my offerings are not something you would be interested in....That's what I asked for and would like to hear it...So far I only have one vote for no drawer type boxes...

I really at this point don't need much more experience about what you have, or have bought...Or if you have put a fan on it, or even what kind...There are other threads going on about that and, and I have been adding fans etc for years....

Please....Is there anything I listed that you may consider for your boat ???
No problem if not...Just say so....I'm only looking for options to sell on my site, and I am looking for your input...

Again...As always....If you would like me to comment on what you have, or are considering....I'm always more than willing to help where I can...Just ask in another thread or on my site...Can we please keep this one on track ?

Steve~

 

[REBrueckner]

"I'd like some opinions of what might interest Hatt owners as well as others."

I'd think most owners would be satisfied with a household frig that fits in the old space, but form follows function. In my own case, anchoring out six mos annually, I added 12 volt refrigeration systems with remote compressors to the original side by side Frigidaire...one on the frig side, a second on the freezer side. Got one used off e-bay for $150 plus $100 to get it charged after installation...This was a good solution for me because I utilized battery power cruising from NY to Nova Scotia and hate running a genny. I would have never considered such an approach in the Chesapeake or tropical waters where air conditioning requires a genny.

To keep air trapped in the freezer side, I made a couple of plywood access panels with foam edges to hold in frigid air while accessing frequently used frozen products above the panel...it was just a friction fit. When crusing alone, I rarely used the freezer side to cut my battery charge time. I also like having a backup in case the frig side ever failed in remote crusing areas.

A big advantage of household frigs: frost free operation. I'd vote for frost free operation as a major consideration. [Mine was not.] On the negative side, I was advised by a frig tech that household frig cooling systems don't last very long in humid marine environments: says he encountered a lot of pinhole leaks. True or false???

 

[patch]

I just purchased an 1988 54' Hatteras and the previous owner had the galley redone several years ago. It has Sub Zero counter units. He had to cut
the full size into pieces to get it out.
I ask him why he chose the counter units, and he said it was because of the counter space and the spacious look and size that it gave the galley.
I have to agree. I looked at a dozen Hats trying to find the one for us and the galley on our boat looks a third larger.
The only negative I've heard is, the counter units use more power. I don't know if that is true, but I hope its not. I'm installing an outback inverter in the next few weeks and hope the power use is reasonable.

 

[bobk]

"I'd like some opinions of what might interest Hatt owners as well as others."

I'd think most owners would be satisfied with a household frig that fits in the old space, but form follows function.

A big advantage of household frigs: frost free operation. I'd vote for frost free operation as a major consideration. [Mine was not.] On the negative side, I was advised by a frig tech that household frig cooling systems don't last very long in humid marine environments: says he encountered a lot of pinhole leaks. True or false???

Agree... we have a Whirlpool, 18 cu ft, top freezer and self defrost. Much more convenient than manual defrost. It takes some power to defrost, but I suspect it is close to a wash if one is not religious about keeping the evaporator coils clear.

As far as pin holes, if the unit is in a location where it can see some salt mist, I'll bet they don't last long. Inside a dry cabin it ought to be about the same as a house hold unit.

My problem with under counter units is the bending my old knees and back would have to do to get that beer from the back of the bottom shelf! Well executed, as Walt P did in his 48MY, it sure is attractice for the reasons stated. Different strokes etc.

We find we can store enough frozen/perishables for the three week cruise from Port St. Lucie to the Chesapeake in 18 cu ft.

BobK
Chateau de Mer
1981 48MY