Opinions on Apreamare boats?

[ThirdHatt]

They are designed and built in Italy and are supposedly very high quality boats. They've been building boats since 1849 and are part of the Feretti group. We are looking for a 30-33' boat with a cabin to replace our Ocean Master 31' Center Console. We LOVE the CC, but really would rather have a cuddy cabin so we could take it on short overnight/weekend trips when there is not enough time to take the Hatt. I even looked into converting the Ocean Master into a cuddy, but it is just not feasable.

I have been looking at classic Bertram 31's and those are a real possibility if I found the right one. Spartan interiors and the fact that the flybridge models look so much better than the express model that would fit our requirements best is a problem. Also, it is nice having a 2002 model Ocean Master when it comes time for insurance. No surveys required, easily agreeable value and cheap coverage just because the boat is not very old.

There are not many really nice ~30' boats out there that fit our requirements. Some that I've looked at are Albemarle 31, Cabo 31, etc. Melissa and I are Master Scuba Divers and love diving but we really don't fish although we do appreciate the seaworthiness and reliability of a really good fishing boat.

Requirements: ~11' beam and ~16k lbs to fit in my lift, ~25kt cruise, twin diesel inboards, genset & A/C, no tower and height above waterline around 10' or less to fit under local bridge without requiring an opening.

I would love to buy American and have looked at Hinkleys (29 is too small and 35 is too big) and other Lobster/Picnic/Downeast style boats, but I am not a jet drive fan and as far as I can tell nobody has anything quite like the Apreamare 10 meter Cabinato (cabin) model. These Italians have made a really sweet boat with tons of style, very seaworthy, teak walkaround decks, oversized stainless-framed teak swim platform, high gloss cherry interior with excellent joinery, etc. They are quite polular and have a great reputation in Europe but are somewhat rare in the U.S. There are three '01 models on the U.S. market currently that have caught my eye.

Does anyone have any opinions or experience with Apreamare and/or have any suggestions for a really nice small boat with overnight accomodations?

 

[GJH]

We docked across from a couple of these this past spring in Ft. Lauderdale. Very pretty indeed. However they appeared very, very maintenance intensive with all the bright work involved. There was a crew of guys working on them, for a week, getting ready for the PB boat show, and these were one year old boats, not yet sold!. I liked the lay out, but did not get a chance to dig in to the engine room and systems.

We are looking at similar boats to your specs for when we are done full time cruising on the Hatt. I strongly urge you to take a look at the Sabre, Hunt, Ellis, even Legacy (they are now OOB) boats. A Tiara 29 or 31 is also worth considering. The Apreamares just are too much of a maintenance hog for me, and I would wonder about availability and cost of parts (don't know, just wondering). A friend of ours has a Hunt Surfhunter that is a really fun boat.

Keep us apprised of your search's progress!

George

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Byron,
I think you should buy an old 28 or 31 Hatteras cruiser and totally refurbish it with new diesels, generator, new A/C, electronics, etc. It would fit all of your requirements(except is has a 12'5" beam) and best of all............it's a Hatteras. Here is one for you: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=74531&url=

You'd also be part of the two Hatt club with Sparky and JLR.

 

[ThirdHatt]

George, I greatly appreciate your thoughts! I know the brightwork would be an issue, but whatever I get will live in the lift under the boathouse which has limited sun exposure so it shouldn't be TOO bad. It would certainly be more of a commitment than I have now with the all-gellcoat boat with no wood anywhere!

I looked at the brands you suggested and at first all looked promising, (especially the Legacy) but they are all single screw and I need twins. The Legacy 34 was close and has twin engines, but 12'6" beam is just too wide without major modifications to my deck and boatlift. The Legacy 32 express would fit but single screw. None of the boats have an interior that can hold a candle to how drop-dead gorgeous the Italian boats' interiors are. That high-gloss grain-matched Cherry is really something. In a Hatt I would say it's a few shades too light, but these boats do not have any real windows to let much natural light in, just some stainless portholes so the wood is perfect for this application.

With respect to parts, the ones I am looking at have Yanmar 6-cylinders and Mase or Northern Lights gensets. A good friend of the family owns the Yanmar and Mase distributorship for our area, so mechanical parts are not an issue for me.

Sky, at first I considered all the small Hatt's (of course) and I do love the 31 but the 12'6" beam is just too much. 11' would be perfect. I might be able to squeeze 11'6", but that is it. The slip is only 12' 9" and the cradle beams are 12' wide, so once you add the 4" pulleys I really can't go too far over 11' beam to fit comfortably.

What other boats should I be looking into? Please keep the opinions and suggestions coming!

 

[bobk]

The Mainship Pilots have sure become popular, but I can't comment on quality or specs.

Bob

 

[GJH]

Given your beam requirements, have you checked out what the engine room layout is yet on the Apreamare with twins in it?

The boat club I belong to out in Alameda had a fleet of Mainships. I like the Pilots (used a couple of 30's and a 34 a lot), but they were singles. Much more basic boats style wise, but honest designs. I saw one with twins and it looked like a service nightmare.

The Tiaras are twins, BTW. Very tight ER in the 31 Open.

A single with a bow thruster is darned easy to use; my buddy's Surfhunter has bow and stern thrusters, is "sick easy" to maneuver. So I'd encourage you not to forsake singles entirely.

 

[ThirdHatt]

I do realize that twins are going to always be tight in a 30' boat, but my 31 CC has twin Cummins mounted right next to each other under a big engine box with fore and aft seating on a hydraulic ram. The are literally two inches between them which makes for fun work to change the port starter or the stbd impeller/water pump. The Apreamare has 20" in between the engines, but are a little tight reaching the outboard sides.

The Tiara, Cabo and Apreamare 31's all have that hatch arrangement that lifts all the helm seats up and does not open very far. Not encouraging.

The Apreamare's have a V-drive configuration which I like because you get the weight in the back of the boat, shallow shaft angles for a level running attitude and shallow draft. The teak deck in the cockpit raises for ER access. I had a V-drive in a Malibu ski boat and absolutely loved it, although you are adding one more gear to maintain.

I think you are right and I really should look at the single screws, but I just don't know if I can bring myself to do it. The reliability, comfort and overall feel of twin diesels is hard to dismiss. I have come home on one engine more times than I care to admit.

 

[stormchaser]

What about a Pearson True North 34?

 

[ThirdHatt]

What about a Pearson True North 34?

Thank you for that suggestion as I had not thought about Pearson and I just looked into them. The 34 just came out so no pre-owned ones on the market yet but there are some 33's. They are beautiful and the 33 True North is very attractive, but again, only single screw. Have you seen the ER on the 33? It is just a hatch directly above the motor and not much bigger than the engine so you cannot hop down there and you can only reach what you can from deck level. Does not look like fun, even compared to boats of similar size with twins!

 

[MicroKap]

You may want to look at the 30' Osprey. They are twin Volvo Penta diesels with the duoprop. A member of our club had one before he went back to sailing and this boat was built pretty solid and had a nice pilothouse. He even had controls and steering in the cockpit. You just have to check if there is a generator to run A/C when not at the dock as you may need it in a fully enclose pilothouse.

On another note, does it have to be a twin diesel? There are a lot of boats in that size range that now have twin outboards. Hanging the engines off the transom will afford you a lot more space in the boat. In addition, you can trim the engines up to really keep them out of the water.

 

[ThirdHatt]

You may want to look at the 30' Osprey. They are twin Volvo Penta diesels with the duoprop. A member of our club had one before he went back to sailing and this boat was built pretty solid and had a nice pilothouse. He even had controls and steering in the cockpit. You just have to check if there is a generator to run A/C when not at the dock as you may need it in a fully enclose pilothouse.

On another note, does it have to be a twin diesel? There are a lot of boats in that size range that now have twin outboards. Hanging the engines off the transom will afford you a lot more space in the boat. In addition, you can trim the engines up to really keep them out of the water.

Osprey is yet another boat that I was not familiar with. VERY rugged and alll business boat, much like my current Ocean Master but I don't have a cabin. I do have an issue with Duoprops or any outdrives, pods, etc. I am a straight inboard (or outboard) kind of guy.

I do like outboards, but only on smaller boats of say 25' or less. Because I plan to spend the night occasionally on whatever ~30' express cabin cruisier I end up getting, I must have diesels because I would never sleep on a boat with a gasoline powered genset due to safety concerns. I would not consider outboards and a diesel powered genset with a different tank for the genny, etc. Too complicated. The one feature that I would absolutely LOVE would be the ability to trim up in shallow or questionable waters, but that is the price I pay for the simplicity of inboards.

 

[Flick]

Byron,
How about a 1974 31' Sport cruiser? See below - Boats for Sale.
31'9", length 11'9" beam, bridge clearance of 10'3" and a draft of 3' 1" (prop pockets). Gas engines, no generator but factory wired for one. Engine access through cockpit, (three large hatches makes easy removal for diesels). The 31' Sport cruisers were never as popular as the 31 Bertram but the Hatt has a larger cabin and a better cockpit as there are no engine boxes. I don't want to be a two Hatt owner come spring.
Flick

 

[stormchaser]

I think you are really limiting your chocies by insisting on twin diesels in an under 35' crusier. Most under 35'ers seem to have either twin gas or a single large diesel. Its a cost thing...twin diesels would jack up the price of the new baot so high that it would be out of the reach for most and therfore it's jsut not a common thing. wither modern powerplants being very reliable, i would not hesitate to have a single scerw diesel. In fact many/most high end offshore trawlers are single screw and the owners seldom worry about failures. I suspect you are basing everything on your experiences with twinh OLD diesels that have had problems for you. Newer diesels aer VERY reliable. I had a single screw trawler for 8+ years and never had to be towed in.

 

[ThirdHatt]

Flick, your 31' Sport Cruiser looks like it is in great shape! I appreciate the suggestion, but unfortunately the beam is still just a bit too wide to fit in my lift, plus I would have to repower and get a generator, etc so your boat will not work for my needs. I wish you the best of luck with the sale!

Stormchaser, thank you for your opinion. You are correct and I do understand that I am limiting my options somewhat but there are still plenty of boats out there even smaller than what I am looking for with twin diesels. Albemarle makes a nice 28' with twins and Apreamare makes a 25' with twin diesels. Look at all the Cabo's, Luhrs, Blackfins, Hinkley 29's, etc in the 30' range all with twin inboard diesels. The boats I am looking at are at the high-end of this size range and all seem to have a $200-350k+ original MSRP when new, so I don't believe that a $25k engine really offsets the price that much. I'll gladly pay extra to have twins.

My experiences with coming in on one engine have nearly always been a fuel issue. It doesn't really matter how good a diesel engine is, it won't run without fuel. I have had clean, freshly changed filters plug in rough seas just from a little crap at the bottom of the Racor bowls getting tossed up and into the filter! I am well versed at changing filters and repriming at sea, but sometimes they just don't prime very easily and when you're in rough stuff you just want to get back. With only one engine, you have one way to get home. If you can't fix it, start calling for a tow. That second engine is invaluable at that point. To me, having two engines is 100% better than just one. I know that lots of boats are single diesel and do just fine, but it is not for me. I like redundancy.

 

[stormchaser]

I totally understand, but like you said, it's mostly fuel problems and if you are running both engines off the same tank, you arevery likely to have both fail due to the same bad fuel. Unlike the design of Hatteras, most boats dont allow you to select which tank to pull from and return to.

 

[ThirdHatt]

Good point. I did not think about if you only had one tank that both engines pull from but my Ocean Master has two completely separate tanks, therefore two completely different and independent sources of propulsion. There are three valves so that I can pull from either tank with either engine but I have always kept them separate. I know the Apreamare's have two tanks. Now I have another requirement to add to my list, TWO TANKS!

 

[stormchaser]

Not only do you want two tanks...you want the fuel rail/valving setup so you can CHOOSE which tank each engine runs off of and returns to. I'd bet msot boats ahve two or more tanks, but few have the valving so you can switch which tank each engine pulls from/returns to. That's one thing I LOVED when I first saw the setup on my Hatt.

 

[ThirdHatt]

Now that you mention it, that is where my Ocean Master would be lacking as it merely has valves to choose where the fuel is pulled from. The return lines only go to their respective tanks. That would become an issue if I ever had to run any distance while pulling from only one tank as it would greatly reduce my range. If I were keeping it I think I would add the necessary valves to be able to choose return flow as well.


THANKS!

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Okay, here is the answer. Buy that 31 Hatt. Rebuild your dock and lift. Repower the boat and get it just the way you want it. All and all you probably won't have any more money into the whole thing than if you bought a new 31 of some kind. And, after you get done, you'll have exactly what you want plus it will be a showstopper classic. Come on, just go for it.