On Star is Dying

[Starman]

With all the new GPS equipment Now available, I think On Star may be a dying company, especially when they send out a letter such as the one I received last week.

My GMC truck is a 2001. It is loaded with all the bells and whistles, including On Star, and I have used it many times.

So in this letter On Star stated my system was analog and as of December 31, 2007 I will no longer be able to use it. The FCC digital regs are coming into play and the analog system(s) are out out.

Now I can accept change, but it seems to me On Star would have made some sort of offer for those of us with the analog to covert other than a discount on a new vehicle........Geeeeeeeeeeze

 

[MikeP]

Another one of those "technology upgrades" that leaves folks high and dry with no subsequent support - just "Buy our new even higher tech stuff!" As if that will last forever...

When I first got into digital photog 5-6 years ago I saved a bunch of stuff onto a cd. Now those pics on that CD ("CDs last forever!") won't read on any computer so I have no pictures.

As a friend told me when I was just barely on my way to becoming a Luddite (I've only been one for maybe 3 years or so), when your information, whatever it is, is in a computer or on a computer storage device of any kind, figure that some day you will no longer have that information. If it's a piece of paper, you have the paper, if it's a film negative/slide, you actually have a film negative/slide. If it's "data," you got nuthin!

 

[captddis]

Just like when I had all the old family tapes and slides put on VHS tape because it lasts forever.....
Or like trying to get a battery for a 2 year old cell phone. It is almost impossible. The kid at the counter will always say " Dude that thing is a antique!" A new phone is cheaper! Not all bad though, I remember paying 1400.00 for my first cell phone and thinking I got a deal.

I did not renew my Onstar on my 06 Silverado. Then Onstar sent me a 1/2 price offer, which I felt was more in line so I renewed.

 

[dastahl]

Yup the tech stuff is moving along with or without us. My On-Star Tahoe emailed me yesterday cause the port front tire was low on air pressure.

I could'nt help reminiscing about working on my old camaro in the cold garage all night trying to get it to run and take me to work the next morning. We may have come a long way, may be.

David
Skooch 42 LRC 401
Worton Creek MD

 

[Genesis]

I dropped my ONStar as soon as the free part (ok, built into the cost of the truck) expired. They tried to lure me back many times - but I never saw the value in it.

Its damn expensive. The new digital system is "better", but its STILL damn expensive.

No bite from this guy.

 

[CARL GUZMAN]

This is a thred I can relate to I've had to renew 3-4 times on my 2003 Escalde only truck I ever bought new and have had this long, and I plan to keep another year or too. I droped the service twice but when you need you need it and it does some cool stuff , I use it like 1-2 times a month :
1.when I forget my cell phone at home
2. when you want to act the part and have them make the resturant reservations for you
3. when my cell has no service area the on-star always works
4. if your in an accident they call 911 first
5. I gotta go wife is hear with lunch..... bye..........funs is over

 

[Genesis]

Well, my cell is never missing. And it works essentially everywhere.

If I wreck badly enough that I can't use the cell, its unlikely I'm going to care. And one has to wonder - is the system really totally off? It DOES know how to connect in that case.... so if I wrecked would they really ignore the signal? I'm not about to wreck intentionally to find out, but I also suspect the answer is "no".

The rest? Do I care? Not for the kind of money they want......

Anyway, as I see it I already pay for this service - on my cell phone.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I just can't believe some of the advertisements for OnStar. Somebody locks their keys in the car. No big deal. If you owned a Ford, you could just punch in your code on the keypad and you'd be in. No calling anybody. Why don't they(Ford) promote this? Plus, I don't like the GPS locator part of OnStar. I'm not sure I want someone to be able to track my every movement.

 

[captddis]

Don't bring your cell phone with you to the strip club either. They can tell where the phone is too.

 

[MikeP]

Scenario1:
Onstar computer to DMV computer: I show Carl's Escalade traveling at 76.247 miles per hour on hiway [x] 8.963 miles south of exit 14; the speed limit there is 60 MPH.

DMV computer to Onstar computer: Roger that, issue a ticket for reckless driving and forward the citation to his insurance company and the highway patrol.


Scenario 2:
Onstar computer to DMV computer: We are not receiving GPS data due to sunspots butDavid's Tahoe transited the 5 mile toll portion of highway [y] in 4.124 minutes which would have required an average speed of 75.744 MPH; the speed limit on that section of the toll road is 45 MPH due to maintanance on the shoulder of the road.

DMV computer to Onstar computer: Roger that, revoke his license for endangering life and property and instruct him to turn himself into the Highway Patrol duty officer at the Gotcha station at exit 42a. Forward this action to his insurance company and his wife.

 

[Genesis]

BTW, lest you think this is farfetched, there are already cases on file where insurance companies and law enforcement are subpoenaing infomation from the black box computers in your car.

What black box? Oh, you didn't know there was one in there? There are actually several - including the one that controls your airbags - and their storage is non-volatile.

 

[captddis]

Mike,
Scenario 2 is reality. In FL we have a Sunpass transponder for the tolls. It logs the time you pass the toll. I have heard that a automated system is operational that mails out citations. We also have cameras at big intersections as well. Intersetingly the number of rear end accidents at the intersections with cameras have INCREASED.
Like it or not a push of a button and anyone can have your life history.

 

[Pascal]

"I could'nt help reminiscing about working on my old camaro in the cold garage all night trying to get it to run and take me to work the next morning. We may have come a long way, may be."

david, yeah but at least you could work on it and get it running ! nowadays, forget it. if you dont' have the computers and diagnostic equipment, it's a trip to the dealer.

we haven't come a long way... while modern cars may offer some convenience unheard of 30 years ago, and while they are more efficient, enconomical and less poluting, it has come at too great a price when it comes to the ability to maintain them.

same with our boats... as we'v often discussed. these older DDs maybe loud, oily and smoky but they will keep on running even with major electric/electronic problems... or good ole control cables vs electronics...

as to On Star, i've never understood the benefits, indeed a cel phone can do the job in most cases... but dont' they have digital models in the newer cars ? they're still advertising the systems on radio and TV...

same with equivalent system sold on some boats... i forgot what they call it, expensive, complicated for marginal benefits

 

[SeaEric]

Mike, I see your speeding scenarios, how about this: There's a liquor store in my small home town here, Easton MD (Pop. 10K) that has a "frequent customer club card" that gives you a discount if you sign up and use the card. This allows them to track all of your alcoholic beverage purchases! Is this really data that needs to be recorded? Imagine standing in front of a judge in the local courthouse on a DUI charge and the Sheriff shows up with a print out from "Hair Of The Dog" liquor store? Eeeeek!

 

[jim rosenthal]

Scenario #3: your Onstar system records heavy breathing in your car and forwards it to your spouse...except you're alone in the car. It's on the radio, or the stereo, or whatever. Of course no one believes you and you end up divorced. The good news? your ex gets that car....

 

[Starman]

Personally I could care less if the govt' wants to track me or check the black boxes. I have done nothing wrong to start with so tracking me, checking boxes etc.....should be only a concern for those who have something to hide.

Our information is out there. Banks, credit unions, credit reporting agencies, hospitals, doctors offices, insurance companies, the list is endless and they have all the information to track us since the day we were born.

No big deal to me, because like I say, I have done nothing wrong.

On the flip side.

The police/DA can and have built strong cases around those involved in major crimes by use of information obtained through these on board computer boxes.

When a vehicle with On Star is stolen, it can be tracked and actually shut down , saving the vehicle , and aid in catching the bad guy.

There are benefits, that I feel out weigh this privacy thing people are so worried about.

I also have used the On Star to make reservations for me. Pretty cool.

I never did use the cell phone service though. It is way to pricey for my checkbook. But I have been in areas when on the road when I could not get cell phone service and On Star did relay a message to the house for me when I needed that help.

I wonder what is the cut-off year: what year did they switch over to the digital On Star system ?

 

[Genesis]

The problem is that the analog AMPS systems are being shut down (eventually) and that's what the original OnStar uses.

Its actually quite stupid on OnStar's part, as AMPS was dead and buried in terms of cell service LONG before OnStar put digital systems in the cars.

So basically, in the 01/02 model year, they sold you a known obsolete system at the time of sale! Wasn't that nice of them? You couldn't even activate analog AMPS service - anywhere - at that point.

Now why AMPS? Because it includes CDPD, which is what OnStar's original system uses for digital data - signals to do things like unlock your car doors or track the car.

BTW, if you think that the GPS makes the car trackable, the antenna is inside, and has a very-visible connector (which takes 10 seconds to unplug). The antenna for the system is likewise in the open and can be unscrewed.

There goes the anti-theft provisions.... anyone who steals your car and is too dumb to disable the ONStar system before they do it deserves what they get.

 

[Starman]

Yep,

Stupid is a stupid does.

There was a case right here in Jacksonville, NC when a person got gas and "left their car keys in the vehicle" when they went to pay.

That was the first mistake.

But he called On Star and then the police. When police got the vehicle in sight, On Star shut it down. The bad guy was caught.

Stupid thief !

As a former cop, I can tell you that the vast majority of the criminal type are about as dense as lead, and disconnecting anything is beyond the comprehension most of them will ever realize.



Aside from all that, It does seem like we should be given new digital service because they knew of this long before it was "common Knowledge". Common Knowledge is based on an overwhelming of the general population having the same answer to a question.

Many cases have had testimony supported by the common knowledge concept and it is allowed in court, based on case precedents previously allowed and upheld by the appellate courts.

 

[spartonboat1]

Quote "Personally I could care less if the govt' wants to track me or check the black boxes. I have done nothing wrong to start with so tracking me, checking boxes etc.....should be only a concern for those who have something to hide.

Our information is out there. Banks, credit unions, credit reporting agencies, hospitals, doctors offices, insurance companies, the list is endless and they have all the information to track us since the day we were born. "

Remember that your quote about never doing anything wrong is your opinion...if you ever get caught up in any situation and report inaccurately, or "forget", you may do "wrong" inadvertantly. All your HIPAA info, guess what, does not belong to you, it is the property of someone else.

Also, I have developed, among many systems, Unique Person Identifiers (UPI's) for large enterprises and you would be stunned beyond belief if you knew how difficult it is for government agencies or corporations to identify beyond a shadow of a doubt, i.e. with 100% accuracy, that you are who you are. No, not 99.9 or 99.999 (1 in 10,000) or 1 in a million, or 1 in a 100 million, without error.

Interestly enough, after all their layoff's, GM is running job fairs to do more new hires for...On Star, among other things, most fuel economy improvement.

As for mucho electronics, I long for the days of my old Mercedes...heat was an actual water valve and those valves and the air vents were at the other end of a...'cable' that I controlled at the dash; all hydraulic transmission with no "electronic interface". I have yet to own a modern car with the electronic temp controls that hold a decent temp setting. They're always off, so I play with them all the time. Oh, forgot, I had a Buick with with a "bridge" of three balanced thermisters that worked "perfectly"; Volvo also had the same system. But my next Buick was all electronics, and by that I mean digital running on top of microprocessors and it was flaky. I could go on, but would be yet more boring.

Ok, I will admit I do like the GPS for running in fog!! Radar is for avoiding other objects, not really for navigating.

 

[MikeP]

Basically, the deal is we all love new tech when it does cool stuff that we like and hate it when it doesn't. What I hate automatically and on principle is new tech stuff that exists ONLY to allow markerters to say something like, "The new Eco-super-matic X500 allows you to set over 200 DIFFERENT seat postitions for your driving comfort, that's 50 more postions than brand X or Y." It's the same thing as having settings for things buried 5 levels deep in menus.

The thing that bothers me is that NO ONE, I mean NO ONE, including whoever designed the item, can find it easier to operate a menu driven function than one where you flip a switch or turn a knob. What's easier, selecting the "function" menu, selecting the "volume" icon and then moving the mouse? Or turning the "volume" control ? Absolutely absurd stuff - totally driven by the fact that a menu on a chip is WAY cheaper than a real volume control.
As far as Onstar or whoever knowing where I am, I violently object to that unless I choose to tell them where I am. No, I am not a criminal but this is NOT the government's business. It astounds me as a (very) minor student of history that we are essentially now doing what we once exhibited total disgust for, rediculed, and fought against - the concept that the authorities at whatever level can "track us," ask us for "our papers," whatever.