older boat issues/AKA help the idiot!

[Woodsong]

I had the occassion to look at a 1972 hatt 58' YF the other day when on an unrelated trip to visit family. This is only my second one to inspect and I have some questions. As luck would have it, the day I looked at the boat it was raining. I found not less than 6 leaks on her- is this common?! We like the sound of water but not typically the dripping kind into the salon or galley or staterooms. Multiple windows were leaking and the shore power coming into the engine room was leaking through the deck...not good to see water dripping all over the 2" bundle of electrical wires and down on to everything else.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/livinglite/leakyshorepower.jpg

Some of the leaking windows were at the frame of the portholes. As well, the side galley window over the dinette was leaking pretty good at both ends of the boat. The frame even appeared pitted on the inside of the boat. There was even a leak falling right onto the pilothouse helm's compass! Here is a picture of one of the windows:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/livinglite/leakywindow2.jpg

One thing that concerned me was some cracking on the foredeck near the bow of the boat. There were multiple small hairline "cracks" all over the foredeck. None appeared to be deep so maybe it is just a failed paint job??? Anyone seen these before? Here is a picture:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/livinglite/foredeckcracks.jpg

The "support" for the aft portion of the flybridge (at the aft section of the midships side rail if that makes sense) also appeared to have some water intrusion to the wood:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/livinglite/flybridgesupport1.jpg

Lastly, the port engine smoked pretty bad when fired up. Starboard smoked a little but port was pretty bad:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/livinglite/smokingporteng.jpg


SO- I pretty much decided this is not the boat for me due to all the above (the boat I looked at in FL 3 weeks ago appeared to be in better exterior shape though the interior needed more updating).


I am posting this here to see what you all think of the above issues...whether they are par for the course, red flags for you, and ball parks of what the cost would be. I have no problem I am a relative dunce at this point in the game when it comes to larger, older boats!

 

[Genesis]

A lot of fuel on the water on that engine. Could be a bad injector, or far worse.

The window frame issue is potentially serious. Its been left alone for a while - there is VISIBLE wood damage. You can expect to find a LOT MORE once you pull those frames - I'd expect a big part of that panelling and mounting areas under there are wasted. ITs fixable and not that big of a deal if you do it yourself (mostly time rather than money) but hiring that out is going to get expensive FAST. The panel damage cannot be reasonably repaired in a way you won't see it - the best option there is to install some more trim to hide it. Of course that will flag it instantly for anyone who buys it from you later... but at least it will be fixed.

Hairline cracks look like someone repainted the deck and did a pizz-poor job. Unlikely to be anything more than that. Did you sound the deck around there? If so, was it drum-tight or "thud-thud-thud"?

Leaks around electrical equipment are never good, and again, if left go there's plenty of wood in the way that can be wasted. Not hard to fix once again but a LOT of work if that has happened.

I don't like that windless post (if that's what it is in the background of the deck picture) one bit. There's ooze coming from the bottom of it, which may mean the deck core is compromised. I've fixed that problme before and its the worst job I ever faced on my boat. That alone would be worth a solid $20k off my bid - that's how much I HATED doing it the last time. BTW, a survey will catch that and he won't get away with it - if you can find a yard to do it at all they're going to hit you for at least $10 big ones, and maybe 20, depending on the yard and how bad it is - so a $20k deduction is not unreasonable at all.

All this adds up to a lot of work and money. If the price is right I might take it on, but if not..... well....

 

[MikeP]

What you saw is typical of many of the 53's we looked at in our 2-year search. My biggest issue would have been with the interior wood because of the water leaks. I saw the same holes on the interior window frame on several boats. The smoke from the engine is hard to tell - many DDs put out a serious cloud of smoke when started cold and then settle down nicely. However, that smoke looks a lot more blue than I'd like to see which indicates a possible oil burning problem as opposed to an overfueling (injector or tuning) problem. Then again, digital cameras/processing aren't known for being color-accurate so it could be an artifact from that. The fact that the engines act differently is a better indication that one of them is not quite right.

The flybridge support (I don't know what it's called either) are sometimes delaminated and have internal seepage. So what you see there is not too unusual.

In any case, I would have rejected the boat as well. There are plenty of better ones around, I'm sure!

Keep looking and don't get in a hurry!

 

[george caragianis]

I did make what I felt was a very reasonable pre-survey offer on that boat based on what I saw and knew. Wasn't enough so my search continues. No problem other than running out of frequent flyer miles and Marriot reward points. Woodsong, check your PM.
George

 

[Bill Allen]

When I was looking and saw something like these issues I made notes for future reference. Found out what the owner was really looking for money wise. Metioned all the issues I found to the broker and if I didn't feel the price would drop to a very accetable number I took my notes and ran not walked away. Bill

 

[ADaily3224]

I would keep looking. I would rather get a nice on up front, enjoy it, and make it better, than rebuild a neglected boat. It's hard to come out ahead on the bargain fix er up er. There are plenty of people on this site that can steer you to the nice one's . It may be a good exercise to post the information on the boat you may be interested in before making the trip to see if anyone here has checked it out already.

Tony D

 

[luckydave215]

Boat choice depends on what skills you have the most of. If your best skill is writing checks, it doesn't matter what's wrong, only how much it's going to cost to make it right. If you're no mechanic, but are skilled with wood work/varnish, find a boat that's good mechanically but needs cosmetic help, and so on.
In my case, I'm a mechanic, and enjoy turning wrenches, but hate wood work and cosmetic foolery, so I bought a boat in perfect cosmetic shape with healthy engines but that needed every pump rebuilt, the PO's influence removed from the electrical system, etc. etc.
Lots of little things, (some not so little ) most were fun one day projects. The one I'm finishing right now is restoring to polished new condition the original all brass manual bilge pump.

Your milage may vary.

 

[Capt K]

Those "supports" are pretty much decorative. I replaced mine this spring. I used two pieces of 3/4" marine plywood glued together, epoxied and painted. I also made them so they would go all the way to the toe rail bypassing the railing to actually act as a support, somewhat, and stop trapping water on top of the railings. The new bottom extension is behind the weather panels so the look is still original.

K

 

[Maynard Rupp]

A friend of mine had leak issues on a 42 DC Hat. The owner had the window frames removed, stripped of the anodising and Awlgripped. They did a nice job of caulking around all edges when they installed them, but not the screw holes. They leaked around the ouside edge like crazy. I had them remove every screw and shoot a squeeze of 4200 in each hole. They re-installed the screws and it has been completly dry since. The other stuff on that boat you are looking at doesn't look good. I would smile and walk.

 

[Freebird]

My advice is short and sweet. Run fast, run far, then call me. I'll still sell you my turn-key 41DC that's a half day's run away from where you want to dock it. But I get out a lot and know lots of folks, and I can find a boat for you, no charge. I'd just be happy to have another Hatt owner on the Tennessee River to play with when I'm there!

 

[Thomas W Peavy]

Woodsong, before I make travel arraingments is this the 58YF in Kentucky you are talking about?

 

[Woodsong]

sending you a PM Thomas!

 

[neosin]

I'd bet anything all you have wrong with that engine is a bent rod. That was my problem doing the same thing and is an easy fix. HOWEVER i did run on my engine and blew it up rod right out the block. GET this puppy checked before you run on it!

I had the occassion to look at a 1972 hatt 58' YF the other day when on an unrelated trip to visit family. This is only my second one to inspect and I have some questions. As luck would have it, the day I looked at the boat it was raining. I found not less than 6 leaks on her- is this common?! We like the sound of water but not typically the dripping kind into the salon or galley or staterooms. Multiple windows were leaking and the shore power coming into the engine room was leaking through the deck...not good to see water dripping all over the 2" bundle of electrical wires and down on to everything else.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/livinglite/leakyshorepower.jpg

Some of the leaking windows were at the frame of the portholes. As well, the side galley window over the dinette was leaking pretty good at both ends of the boat. The frame even appeared pitted on the inside of the boat. There was even a leak falling right onto the pilothouse helm's compass! Here is a picture of one of the windows:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/livinglite/leakywindow2.jpg

One thing that concerned me was some cracking on the foredeck near the bow of the boat. There were multiple small hairline "cracks" all over the foredeck. None appeared to be deep so maybe it is just a failed paint job??? Anyone seen these before? Here is a picture:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/livinglite/foredeckcracks.jpg

The "support" for the aft portion of the flybridge (at the aft section of the midships side rail if that makes sense) also appeared to have some water intrusion to the wood:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/livinglite/flybridgesupport1.jpg

Lastly, the port engine smoked pretty bad when fired up. Starboard smoked a little but port was pretty bad:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/livinglite/smokingporteng.jpg


SO- I pretty much decided this is not the boat for me due to all the above (the boat I looked at in FL 3 weeks ago appeared to be in better exterior shape though the interior needed more updating).


I am posting this here to see what you all think of the above issues...whether they are par for the course, red flags for you, and ball parks of what the cost would be. I have no problem I am a relative dunce at this point in the game when it comes to larger, older boats!

 

[spartonboat1]

I always discuss these issues from a cost/benefit and/or risk benefit approach.

ID each issue area and assign costs and/or risks of cost and total them.

E.g.,
Windows: $10-12k
Engine: $20-24k
Leaks: $8k
Wiring Issues: $10k
Soft Deck $12k
SO FAR: $60-66k

Include: Blister work on bottom, plus barrier coat, 58'= $12k
Replace all fuel lines and lube oil lines on engines (2): $6k
General risk, due to general condition, already observed: $15k
THIS Sub-Total: $33k

TOTAL= $66k+33k=$99k, call it $100k.

Will the owner and broker scream. Better them than you. You are assuming the current owners risk, and I guarantee you will get no sympathy later.

So, at a minimum, knock $100k off the list price, and you have a start. 58YF's are not all that common. If in good shape, then reflected in price.

my 2cw...

 

[krush]

duh, bent rod?

correlation doesn't = causation


edit: HOLY S*IT 6k to replace fuel lines and oil hoses? WTF did I go to college for?

 

[tomrealest]

You OFFERED TOO MUCH! How do I know since I don't know what you offered? You find stuff that HAS tobe fixed. There are things you WANT to do when you get it. And there are some DESIRES when you get the money. Pay more and get a better boat to start with unless you have lots of time and are mechanically talented.

I bought the best boat I could find and I paid for it. I have one of the best mechanics in south Florida. As a young man I went thru apprenticship school for heavy construction cranes which included a half a year on Detroit Diesels. Message; i know a lot and have a great mechanic.

Be patient and look at a lot, lot, lot of boats!

 

[Angela]

Hey guys...Woodsong isn't looking at this boat anymore. He bought an almost new Silverton MY, a 38-footer I think it was, earlier this year.

 

[neosin]

Here it is a little better for you... This would be real world numbers

Windows: $9-11k fiberglass windows will run you 9-10..and someone does them on here...

Engine: $25-30k Engine replacement that is for the engines and yard costs. Haul out, install of new engine, if you throw that rod. However i believe you could get that problem you have now if you don't run it fixed for 5 or less thousand.

Leaks: $8k ... Ah.. they all leak

Wiring Issues: $2-6k maybe if you re wire a lot, most wiring your gonna end up doing your self with a bud... Plus you know what YOU have and not what some yahoo did...

Soft Deck $12k (don't know never had this problem.. Might be cheaper never know...

SO FAR: $56-67k


note i got my hull painted for 10k.. The top will run me 12-14k.

So over the course of 5 - 10 years, plan on having put 200k cash above what you pay for the boat...into the boat... How far do you guys think I'm off here? ahha! Put the problems in front of the owner, knock off as much as you can on the price.

LOL point is... in 5 years you'll have 120k into it just in fixing it up... You'll pay lord knows how much and when you go to sell if you won't get even 100 maybe 110k for the boat in 5 - 10 years Sure it could pull in more.. if you want to wait 5 years to sell the boat LOL These older boats do not merit the prices people are asking, remember these boat prices are WAY over inflated ... It can't be long until the market adjusts itself on the older 60-70 model Hatteras, We can't keep using the word "vintage" as if it's a cool word to use for very long! LOL I think some of the best things you can do is like the guys in NC rebuilding boss lady... Now that's gonna be a nice old boat... Can't wait to see that thing finished...

I'm being over dramatic here guys please... It really seems like this sometimes doesn't it lol

Have fun guys! Just my 2c

I always discuss these issues from a cost/benefit and/or risk benefit approach.

ID each issue area and assign costs and/or risks of cost and total them.

E.g.,
Windows: $10-12k
Engine: $20-24k
Leaks: $8k
Wiring Issues: $10k
Soft Deck $12k
SO FAR: $60-66k

Include: Blister work on bottom, plus barrier coat, 58'= $12k
Replace all fuel lines and lube oil lines on engines (2): $6k
General risk, due to general condition, already observed: $15k
THIS Sub-Total: $33k

TOTAL= $66k+33k=$99k, call it $100k.

Will the owner and broker scream. Better them than you. You are assuming the current owners risk, and I guarantee you will get no sympathy later.

So, at a minimum, knock $100k off the list price, and you have a start. 58YF's are not all that common. If in good shape, then reflected in price.

my 2cw...

 

[neosin]

And you still bought a yacht fish... poor guy...

LOL just kidding...

You OFFERED TOO MUCH! How do I know since I don't know what you offered? You find stuff that HAS tobe fixed. There are things you WANT to do when you get it. And there are some DESIRES when you get the money. Pay more and get a better boat to start with unless you have lots of time and are mechanically talented.

I bought the best boat I could find and I paid for it. I have one of the best mechanics in south Florida. As a young man I went thru apprenticship school for heavy construction cranes which included a half a year on Detroit Diesels. Message; i know a lot and have a great mechanic.

Be patient and look at a lot, lot, lot of boats!

 

[Woodsong]

Angela is right- I ended up buying a 2005 silverton 38 sport bridge. Not a hatt but a good lake boat for us for the time being!

However, I appreciate your all's ability to dredge up old topics and debate them!!!

Here is are two pics of my current ride so at least the hatt forum will have SOME silverton pics on it. hahaha

Who knows though...wife and I are trying to get to trawler fest either in Mystic, CT beginning of August or the MD show in September and she is reading all the links on the web I send her about doing the great loop so we shall see what next year holds for us!