Sam's is your source for Hatteras and Cabo Yacht parts.

Enter a part description OR part number to search the Hatteras/Cabo parts catalog:

Email Sam's or call 1-800-678-9230 to order parts.

old fuel - diesel

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bertramp
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 15
  • Views Views 5,802

Bertramp

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
500
Status
  1. OWNER - I own a Hatteras Yacht
Hatteras Model
45' CONVERTIBLE-Series I (1968 - 1975)
at what point is diesel fuel considered old and in need of "attention"? I add the miscellaneous "snake oils" for algae and even if not doing a long run, will start the engines to "stir things up". I was told by a diesel mechanic, that due to the high humidity in the northeast this summer, the potential for fuel problems is greatly increased.
Any input ?
 
I would start to worry when your fuel strainer need frequent changing or when significant water begins show up in the seperator. There was a lengthly thread a while back where Diesel Kleen (Grey Bottle) was nominated as the best additive for old fuel.
 
thanks for the input .... but are you considering "a while" to be 2 - 3 months or 2 - 3 years ?
My fuel is from late June 2005.
 
I remember reading in some technical doc, I think from DD, that diesel fuel is good for only 100 days before it starts to degrade.
 
I wouldn't worry too much about 3 month old diesel. You may want too boost the cetane rating with a bit of Diesel Kleen. You'll be fine.
 
For those who can't access Travelers link, here is the text:


The life expectancy of stored diesel fuel is limited. Depending on the amount of contaminates, sooner or later stored diesel fuel will deteriorate. Of the many contributing factors, there are four main factors responsible for the deterioration of marine diesel fuels.
These factors include:
oxidation
microorganism growth
corrosion
sedimentation


Reviewing briefly the first three factors; oxygen reacts with the hydrocarbon molecules in the fuel. Oxidation causes discoloration, formation of particulates, water and gum. Microorganism growth, primarily bacteria and fungi, gather at the fuel water interface in the storage tank. They consume diesel fuel and produce acids and water as byproducts. Corrosion is caused by microbial growth, water and voltage potential across storage tank walls. Corrosion may deteriorate tank walls and releases metals back into the stored fuel. This action will accelerate the oxidative reaction.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sedimentation is a consequence of the fact that marine fuels are not pure hydrocarbons; they contain inorganic matter such as grit, clay and sand. These substances, to some extent, occur in the crude oil and remain in the residual fuel after refining. In addition, other non-oil soluble material may enter the fuel during storage and distribution. These sediments can generally be removed from the fuel by settlement, centrifuging and filtration, depending in their density and particle size. Tests methods used to identify these materials, do not assist in the evaluation of the fuel regarding long term precipitation of asphaltenes.

Several studies have confirmed the effects of the factors discussed above. University of Idaho scientists have conducted tests to determine the timeline and percentage of degradation of stored diesel fuel #2. The results from this testing shows that petroleum diesel fuel #2 degraded 26% after 28 days of storage. Studies conducted by Frankenfeld et.al. under accelerated storage conditions also proved that sediments are formed. The formation of these sediments are increased in the presence of water and dissolved oxygen. [references: "Fuel Facts" National Biodiesel Board, Jefferson City, MO; Frankenfeld, J.W. "General Features of Sediment Formation in Model Fuel System," Ind. Eng. Chem. Prod. Res. Dev. 1983, 22, 608-614].

Before proceeding we should discuss substantial myths about diesel fuel, and in particular, the use of the term Algae with regard to diesel contamination. Virtually every diesel fuel additive makes reference to Algae on it's label. To further perpetuate this myth, AlgaeX incorporates the term in it's name. I received an email recently from someone promoting the AlgaeX products. While the author did not sufficiently identify himself, I found the contents of the correspondence to confirm much of what has been written above. I have paraphrased in the paragraph below, excerpts from this email for the historical perspective as to how diesel sludge came to be called Algae.

The shelf life of diesel fuel is approximately 100 days from the day it is refined, then it begins to break down and form sedimentation. The breakdown process causes diesel fuel to cluster up and fall out of solution, dropping to the bottom of the tank. This forms diesel sludge. The fuel begins to turn dark in color, smell bad and in most cases cause engines to smoke. The engines smoke because some of these clusters (in the early stages) are sufficiently small micron size to pass through traditional filtration and into the combustion chamber. As these cluster increase in size only the outer edges get burned, the rest goes out the exhaust as unburned fuel. Further increases in sedimentation cluster size begins to reduce the flow of fuel by clogging filters. The filters only address the symptom and not the cause. Then there is this word Algae. There is absolutely no algae in diesel fuel; you may have fungus and microbial contamination but no Algae. This is a misnomer for the problem that someone tagged on it many, many years ago.
 
I had this problem when I first bought my boat. It had been sitting up for over a year with full fuel tanks. I was worried about all of the usual things, algae, water etc. Especially about the age of the fuel. My boat is a 1973 38' DCMY with 6-71N's.

While looking for someone to pump out the old fuel, I happened to mention the situation to a friend of mind. This guy was a naval mechanic, working mostly during the Vietnam era. He was all "too familiar" (his words) with the Detroit 71 series.


Again, his words " Hell son, those engines will burn mud! Don't waste your money. Just keep plenty of filters along for the ride."

So I took his advice. We had run the boat a total of about 20 miles to get the survey done. No problems. Changed the primary and secondary filters and ran the boat home about 200 miles. Kept an eye on the Racor gages, no problems. Ended up not changing the filters until the first 100 hour service I did.


Still no problems to date. I believe the newer diesels are a lot more prone to fuel problems than the older ones.


They may be slow, but I like my old Detroits and nothings sounds as good as they do in my opinion.
 
My boat sat for 2.5 years on the hard in Toledo O.. Stable was put in the tanks at shutdown. There was approx 75 gal. in each tank. I added a water clean up and 36 gal of fresh fuel. I ran the boat for 2 hour or so to use up the old fuel with 0 smoke. Changed the filters,which looked good and filled the tanks. I've got 4,000 plus gallons of fuel run through the engines this summer. With not a puff of smoke. So go figure. Maybe its the cold weather. I'm not going to worry about winter storage or 6 mo. layup. Stable for now at take out, Nov 1. Diesel clean and filters in the spring. My 6 diesel tractors set for 6 mo. at a time and both combines even longer. I never do anything special for them outside of filters and Stable. When I baught the boat 1973 DC/FB/43/J&T 6-71N my good friend who is a engineer for DD said change the filters and run it.I think he was right.Bill
 
Last edited:
When I bought my boat a few years ago, the prior owner had been running both engines and the genny off the forward tank only. I have no idea how long fuel had sat in the aft tank (almost equal size to the forward). We set up for the 1,200 mile trip home from NY state to Chicago and naturally set the one engine on each tank. The port RACOR clogged the 2nd day out when we hit some real waves. We just fed her new fuel and burned over 1,000 gal through 3 RACORs for that engine. No problems since. I change engine final fuel filters seasonally and we do add BioDiesel every time we fill up, unless they have something like that already in the fuel.

My advice is, don't worry about it. Add BioDiesel and keep RACORs on hand to change as required.

Also see Genesis' threads on fuel polishing. He has built his own fuel polisher (fuel cleaner) using a pump and very large high quality filters.

Doug Shuman
1978 53MY
 
Re: old fuel - diesel/ Stable?

Trojan: When you mentioned Stable were you referring to the product "Stabil" for gas and diesels?

Thx
 
Yep.

I have an article over on BoatDiesel.

I may do one for here, complete with my latest modifications.

My Hatt now has.....

1. Racor CCVs replacing the original Walker AirSeps. I have gone through three turbos in five years (two per engine) as a result of the Airseps and how much crap is ingested, plus having to clean the aftercoolers every two years. Since replacing them with the CCV the one turbo I changed at roughly the same time has not deteriorated at all. Unfortunately, I still have three "old" ones that will need to come out. $1800 later, I'll be done with that crap - forever. Should have ripped those Walkers out the day I bought the boat. At the same time re-plumbed airbox drains to the bilge diapers and the CCVs don't drain anywhere but to a valve (I manually dump 'em once in a while) My engines are pretty tight - I rarely get much of anything out of the CCV cannisters.

2. A MUCH better fuel filtering system replacing the original Racor 1000MA system that was on there. No contest here. My filter elements have gone half a season without change. This NEVER used to be possible. I'm sold. The filter cost ALONE is worth the change - in 2 years I'll have paid for the changeover. Oh, I got a polishing system out of the bargain too, since I installed a Walbro on each side along with the valving and timer switches to make that work. That one is on the BoatDiesel web page.

3. Just installed a set of FloScans. I still have to calibrate them but my first impressions are that they are very, very nice. What a difference over the old needle-pointer tachs. If these things live up to the promise I'm going to be hugely impressed and this will likely lead me to update all my other gauges on the panel as well. BTW, the install for the Floscans was a real BIATCH. They say about 20 man-hours in the manual. Believe them - it will take you that long if you do it right (all wiring to terminal blocks, etc.) Another thing I should have done the day I bought the boat.

I think I'm going to retrofit the AC controls with digital as well.... that will likely be one of my fall/winter projects, along with replacing those other three turbos......
 
Last edited:
Has anyone tried using bio-diesel to aid in cleaning fuel tanks? I am told that it has excellent cleaning properties, but you have to be cautious as it will break down the plasticizers in some hoses and seals.
 
Last edited:
Passages,

Thanks for copying that over.:)
 
thanks to all for the info.
sounds like ... rum 'em and keep filters handy.

A second thanks and "atta boy" to all on this website. The
amount of knowledge and experience that flows here and is willingly exchanged is stagering. The hours of boating experience that is on here really is amazing. Think about it.
thanks again.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
38,156
Messages
448,738
Members
12,482
Latest member
UnaVida

Latest Posts

Trending content

Back
Top Bottom