North American Rockwell Boats

[Island Dreamer]

I have been looking at late 70's 53 motoryachts and read a exerpt from an article by David Pascoe that seemed to imply that the electrical systems in these years were trouble? I would appreciate any comments. Also the boat that interests me most (1978) has original 8v71TI's with 1400 hrs. Will I get good service life from these engines or should I expect a major overhaul. Thanks for your help.
Bill

 

[SKYCHENEY]

We owned a 1975 43DC for 5 years and never had any electrical problems. As far as the 871's, get an engine survey. If all checks out, then just keep up the maintenance and you should get 3-5000hrs out of them before overhaul.

 

[Nonchalant1]

Bill,

I have a 1978 53MY with the original electrical systems, and have never had any problem with the original stuff. I have had to improve some 12V stuff prior owners added, but never the 240V, 120V or 32V systems. No boat's perfect, but I think these are as close as you're gonig to get. The big differences will be in how they have been maintained.

Same is true for the engines. If they've been maintained well, they'll run 2500 hrs. My 1978 8V71TI's were majored at 2700 hours (for the first time - I'm told). Some will say you only get 2000 hrs with well maintained TI engines, others will say you get twice that. If you get 8V71N's (natural), you may get 5,000 hrs, but you can't get up on plane. Get Detroit Diesel to survey the engines in addition to a marine surveyor that surveys the boat (maybe the same day so they're running hard for part of it. It'll probably cost you less than $500 and you'll learn more than any boat surveyor can tell. 8V71TI's have an inspection port that can be used by a tech to see the cylinder cross hatch (or not), see the pistons, wiggle the rings (or not), look at the ring wear indicator, etc. An oil analysis of oil used at least 10 hours will also tell you a lot. Read the posts here about "Genesis’ 30 Second compression check" and do that yourself with the survey. These things can help you negotiate price, and even if they come out very good, you'll be able claim that the engines are nearing when they may need major overhauls and try to get $30K off the price for it. Then, if you get another 1000 hrs. over the next 4 years from them, you're ahead of the game. Or, if you have to get them majored, you'll have really great engines when they're done.

Good luck,

Doug Shuman

 

[Island Dreamer]

Thanks for you're input. I have set up an inspection for next week.
Bill

 

[Vincentc]

Motivated by David Pascoe's negative note regarding the Rockwell ownership and my interest in purchacing a 43 Hatteras, I set out to find out just when Rockwell's tenure occurred and discovered the following in a article on the RobbReport.com:

The New Bern facility opened as a boat-launch site in 1967, two years after Willis Slane died of a heart attack at age 44. Thirty years later, the company moved its headquarters and most of its manufacturing operations from High Point to New Bern. In the interim, it went through considerable changes, including a merger with North Amer*ican Rockwell in 1968, a sale to the recreational equipment company AMF in 1972, and acquisition by the high-rolling investor Irwin “The Liquidator” Jacobs in 1985. In 2001 Jacobs sold the company to Brunswick, a conglomerate that also owns Sea Ray, Boston Whaler, Meridian Yachts, and several other boatbuilders.

I would suspect that by now any problems with Rockell/Hatteras boats should be resolved.

 

[MikeP]

There wasn't any "problem" with the systems per se, according to a Hatt factory electrical designer who was responsible for the elect systems at the factory during/after that period. He said the perceived issue was not the quality of the electrical wiring at all, it was the fact that Hatt ended up scattering elec panels all over the place instead of having the panels in one central location.

Our '80 is a perfect example, with 3 DC panels, 3 AC panels, and the shorepower/genny panel in different locations.

I ran into this guy on another site having nothing to do with boats and in one of those hi-jacked threads thing, turned out he worked at Hatt at the time. I've invited him to come over here, thinking it would be great to have his expertise but he is unfortunately not interested.

 

[Pete]

I owned a 1967 44 Tri Cabin Motor Yacht and the electrical system was terrible. Design, components used, and installation all qualify for the terrible rating. This applies to both the AC and DC system. I also owned a 1975 36 Convertible that had a great electrical system. I now own a 1976 48 LRC and the electrical system is state of the art even by todays standards. Wire is the best, over sized in every case, component are outstanding, installation is outstanding, etc. The electrical systems went from amateur to excellent with the AMF era. Prior to AMF the hull fiberglass was thicker.

And Mike, based on what you are being told, I have to set the record correct. My 44 had auto non tinned wire with insulation not up to the boat environment. I opened lengths of it to see corrosion in the entire length. The AC and DC breakers are single pole house hold Square D breakers. Unbelievable. And the DC house power selector switch is an absolute safety hazard. It uses a reverse wired battery switch with port/both/starboard positions. Put that switch in the BOTH position and the number 6 wire used on it acts as a jumper between battery banks. The PO on my boat had a problem starting one engine and melted the insulation right off those number 6 wires, and messed up several other wires that were bundled together. If someone reading this has such a setup, DO NOT use the BOTH position on this switch. This is not theory or opinion. This is what I had on that boat. Others could be different, I do not know, but would be interested to learn.

Pete

 

[SKYCHENEY]

So it sounds like the suspect years might be 1968-1972?

 

[Pete]

My speculation is years prior 1972 are definitely worthy of close inspection, and early 70's boats should also get a good look as there was most likely a phased implementation across the product line.

Pete

 

[fissioneng]

I agree. Here is what my research turned up:

Started in 1959
Sold to Rockwell International 1968
Sold to AMF 1972
Sold to Genmar (Irwin Jacobs and companies) 1985
Sold to Brunswick 2002

I know of a 1969 44TC that had shaky electricals too. I also know of two 1972 42C's that have good electricals. Definitely something to closely inspect.

There is another thread about this at:

http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8820

Somehow the thread got hijacked into a portlight discussion!

 

[Pascal]

i think you need to put the early boat electrical system in the context of when they were built...

Mine (1970) is simple compared to the later 1510s but it works almost 40 years later. did other builders use tinned wires in the 60s? I still have the original rotary switches and amps/volrs gauges. if they were so terrible, they'd have been replaced a long time ago.

let's not forget that these boats have often been modifed and parts replaced, sometimes creatively so what you find 40 years later is not what left the factory...

 

[mike]

FWIW, our 1972 53MY #375 has the orig electrical system. I have had no issues with orig wiring both ac & dc, the number tags are still on each wire, and the origional switches still work well. Both the AC & DC are in two well marked pannels on the port side of the lower helm and have good access. However, the 12v add-on systems were after-market and less than up to standards. I have replaced almost all it.

 

[REBrueckner]

Pete posted he had corrosion in some wiring he opened...while that's always possible, it's unusual and suggests either a prior sinking,salt water oustdie spray and or rain water leaking or perhaps a prior engine raw water cooling leak which sprayed water around...

Aboard my 1972 48 YF, as others have noted, all original wiring and switches are in working order. The only electrical component which has failed in ten years of my ownership is the engine paralleling solenoid...I bought a duplicate from SAM"s and the darn thing weighs about 6 lbs....super quality....nevertheless the primary wiring failed, not the contacts which is not common.

On the few wires I have moved at the electrical panel, removal of external insulation and connections reveals wire which appears as brand new underneath...I honestly don't remember if they were tinned or not, I don't think so.

 

[Pete]

Let me respond to some of the comments responding to my earlier post.

First, as I mentioned at the end of my prior post, my information is from my one 44 TC. I also did some electrical work for a friend on a 41 DC of similar vintage and noted an electrical system almost identical to my 44 TC. I do not know how representative these two boats are of the total population of their models or other models.

I also owned a 1973 Pacemaker 32 Sedan Cruiser, bought new. For those not familiar with this era of Pacemaker, it was the price boat of the era and Pacemaker's second year of producing fiberglass boats under their brand. This boat had a electrical system far superior to what I had in my 44 TC. Tinned wiring, marine rated insulation, and DC rated magnetic breakers. It did use the same Square D house rated thermal breakers on the AC system. It was 6 years newer than the 44 TC, but it was a Pacemaker.

My 44 TC had not taken on salt water of any quantity. To see the problem of internal wire corrosion, you need to examine wire that is out in the open, in the engine room, in the bilge, behind the salon panels that also are used for engine room ventilation. In these areas salt water vapor is the enemy. This enemy is not present in the electrical panels.

My points are few and simple. The house DC battery selector rotary switch, wired as I described in my prior post, is a safety problem when in the BOTH position. Using Square D household thermal breakers for DC service is a poor idea. They are not rated for DC service. Their use in AC systems on a boat is less than ideal. Boat breakers should be magnetic and rated for their use. All boat wiring should be rated for their use which translates to tinned stranded wiring and salt water rated insulation, both of which were available back into the 60's. I could go on about the AC electrical outlets mounted open on the back (no outlet box) in the path of salt spray, etc, but enough said. As with any older boat it is buyer beware. Whether you are thinking of buying my boat (not for sale), or any other Hatteras, or other brand, know exactly what you are getting.

That my 2 cents, well maybe 3 cents!

Pete