New Inverter install

[TommyB]

Broke down and decided to have an Inverter installed.

Having the old wet cells replaced. Some reason this boat has 2 wet cells 8d's and 2 AGM 8ds
hooked to a wet cell charger. (pretty sure that's not good for the AGM's)
Gen starts off the starboard engine bank

Installing a 3000 watt xantrex inverter / charger
Installing 6 new 8d AGM's.
1 New AGM for the generator, so it has it's own starting source

Guess it will be 2 for the startboard, 2 for port engine (with a parallel switch)
2 for the house bank, and 1 for the gen
Remote panel.

Anything I need to pay attention to or any thing extra that needs to be installed while they are installing the inverter. They should be starting work this morning

 

[magnawake]

I installed 6 volt golf cart batteries for the house bank. Most trawler people are going the way of GC. The 8d's are a pain to change out. Have you figured out your total amps that you will need? What is the total house bank capacity amp hours? What is the charge rate be of that new charger? Most chargers you need to program them before you use them. My inverter is really great. It takes lots of hours off your genset while traveling. I have my genset running right now charging my house bank while on a mooring in boot key.

 

[Pascal]

Make sure "they" know what th are doing... I ve seen a few inverter installs done by yards which would not pass survey.

All wiring should be marine, tinned, using marine connectors... DC cables between the batteries and inverter should be 4/0 (real big) and distance should not be over 6 to 8'

I am not a big fan on Xantrex, they used to be great 10 years ago but quality has dropped. Look around of the web for stories of failures... Mine failed twice under warranty, and is not dead. Magnum is a much better option, made and supported in America. Price difference is like $400 or $500 and minimal compared to overall costs.

Make sure you define way at will be inverter powered and what will not be. For instance, if you have a 120v to it you probably want that to be inverter powered... What may be obvious to you may not be obviously to installer.

Read the inverter manual yourself and make sure installer didn't take any short cut. If not familiar with electrical, I wonder if you couldn't get a surveyor to just inspect the installation before final payment. May cost you a couple hundred bucks but may be worth it

 

[Canuck Dennis]

Excellent advice, seen so many screw ups with self installs and then moans and groans as the costs elevate

 

[bobk]

Ditto on Pascal's advice re Xantrex. Lots of reports of failures and poor support. AFIK, there are three reliable brands. Magnum, Outback and Victron. I've had the latter for almost eight years and 3000+ cruising hours with out an issue. Marysville Inverter sells many brands and can be relied on for guidance and price. I'm also using 6 GC-2's as the house bank for a 48MY. Be sure to include a battery combiner so the engine generator can charge the house bank while cruising.

Bobk

 

[bostonhatteras]

Nice upgrade! Make sure the fuse in the 12vdc+ line is the fast blow type fuse. The battery cable maximum length is measured 'round trip', positive plus negative equals total wire length. Hook up the battery temperature sensor that the inverter may come with or may be optional. That must be at least a 120 amp charger and the inverter brain can use the temp reading to either speed up charging or slow down depending on battery temperature. Make sure it is securely bolted down to a strong shelf! They are heavy. Youll love it!

 

[DCMY #92]

All good advice. I've had a Xantrex with good success for several years, but you guys have me worried. I chose the Xantrex at the time because it was the only one I found that had a 30amp transfer/pass through switch. I now see that others now have sufficiently large capacity pass through switches.

Instead of golf cart batteries I use sweeper batteries. Same footprint as the GC but taller (and heavier ) but much higher capacity.

 

[TommyB]

Thanks!!
Great advice.
It's supposed to be installed per codes.
Will let you guys know how the install is going.

Shafts / Props / and Coupler are due back on Friday so that install is on going
600 gallon Per Day, water make is being repaired after we splash the boat on Weds.
Combine the water maker / shaft sea trails in one go.

Wonder what else is going to break
Now, if I could just find silicon bronze bolts to replace the swim platform brackets

 

[bostonhatteras]

Try Jamestown distributors for bronze hardware. They are in Bristol ri and have a large web presence.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Xantrex has a habit of orphaning their products- coming out with something else and stranding you with what they used to make. That said, I have a Xantrex/Statpower battery charger which has worked fine; it is the second one , I think the first failed during warranty but I can't recall. As said above, if you have the chance, I'd get a Magnum instead- from their full sine wave line of inverters. Outbacks are VERY good, but cost more. I think Trace still make them as well.

 

[magnawake]

Oh yeah pure sine is the way to go. I've talked to many people who have burned up computers, coffee makers, small electronics before they figured it out. Then had to buy the pure sine inverter. It is lot more money though. Think of the money spent burning things up.

 

[Dan Mapes]

We have six years on the ProSine 3KW inverter/charger with no problems to date and we use it regularly in the Bahamas. Power outages are frequent.
I chose the ProSine because it fit into the space we had which was tall and narrow. Boxy units by others would not fit where we needed to put it. I recommend keeping it out of the engine room and this holds true for all inverters because their efficiency will drop with higher temperatures.

This thread has a mess of photos of our install.


http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?16822-Inverters.-Pros-cons-and-installation

 

[TommyB]

Well, this is going to be fun.
No room on the startboard side to add any more batteries.
So will be just the 2 new AGM's for the engine
Decided to go with 4 AGM's 8d's for the house bank
and 2 AGM's for the port engine this way, they are all isolated.
So will end up with 6 8D's on the port side. Guess I'll be adding some lead to the starboard side to counter balance this list.

Question, one of the vacuflush pump/motor's is in the way. Is it ok to move it to the bulkhead about 8 - 12 inches higher then it is? or does it need to remain at the engine stringer height?
Will make a little shelf to mount it on

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I did not add any new batteries when I installed my Outback. I just use the current house bank as the inverter bank. You may want to try that first. You can always add more batteries later if you find that you need them.

 

[PeterK]

Curious if anyone has used any of the Mastervolt inverters. I have put a couple of their chargers in and love them. They will charge any lead acid type as well as Lithium ions (although I'm not ready to risk them on board. A few years w/o any car/plane fires before I'll do that!).

I am also have some internal conflict with AGM being better for inverter use. I have been reading a considerable amount of information that conclude deep cycle wet cells provide far more bang for the buck than AGMs or gels. Anyone have experience with wet cells AND AGM or gels, specifically replacing one type with another?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

We had a motorcoach with gel cells for the inverter bank. They lasted 10 years before we had to replace them. They are pricey, but they seem to last. That said, I suspect my wet cell Rolls will last just as long on my inverter bank on the boat. I have no experience with AGM's.

 

[Boatsb]

Curious if anyone has used any of the Mastervolt inverters. I have put a couple of their chargers in and love them. They will charge any lead acid type as well as Lithium ions (although I'm not ready to risk them on board. A few years w/o any car/plane fires before I'll do that!).

I am also have some internal conflict with AGM being better for inverter use. I have been reading a considerable amount of information that conclude deep cycle wet cells provide far more bang for the buck than AGMs or gels. Anyone have experience with wet cells AND AGM or gels, specifically replacing one type with another?

I did not like the master volt for 110 /220 60 use. They seem to be built for a European 50 htz market.

As for the "bang for the buck" I would not underestimate the value of not having to replace batteries for longer.

 

[Pascal]

Moving the VF pump up a foot should not be a problem, if anything if you need to open it stuff I'll will stay in the hose and not leak out as much.
The only downside I can see is that waste will remain in the lower part of the hose an may cause permeation earlier.

I have never used AGM for inverter but the 70 footer I run has all AGMs with 4 8Ds for house, 4 8Ds for mains , and 2 4Ds for gensets. I have yet to get any of them to last more than 4 years... The record was one of the Genset batt that failed after 2 years... Never abused, never discharged, good 3 stage charges...

 

[GJH]

if raising the VF pump still has it below the vacuum tank you should be fine. Consult the installation manual which if you don't have it is attainable on line, it has a little calculator that scores different factors of system routing from "no" to ideal. One of the big keys to inverter install is the re-configuring of the circuit breaker boards. Not sure what the Xantrex manual provides, but you could look at a Magnum manual on line and they provide a lot of detail on how best to do it.

It will be interesting to see how Xantrex fares under the ownership of Schneider ( a large French electrical company that also owns APC here in the states), who bought them from a private equity group a year or so ago. It was under that regime they went to making non serviceable throw away stuff in China and customer service went way down. Jim: Trace is a Xantrex brand. A lot of engineers fled Heart/Trace/Xantrex and help found Outback and Magnum.

 

[TommyB]

if raising the VF pump still has it below the vacuum tank you should be fine. Consult the installation manual which if you don't have it is attainable on line, it has a little calculator that scores different factors of system routing from "no" to ideal. One of the big keys to inverter install is the re-configuring of the circuit breaker boards. Not sure what the Xantrex manual provides, but you could look at a Magnum manual on line and they provide a lot of detail on how best to do it. .........

I'm not doing the actual install of the inverter. I'm just helping so that I can learn etc.
I'm moving some of the stuff out of the way, ie the VF pump etc.
Yes, it will be below the vacuum tank by about 3 - 4 inches and about 3 foot if that, away from it.
Moving the Y vale down lower next to the seacocks