New Generator (s)

[dottieshusband]

After much deliberation, I've decided to retire my 20kw Onan MDL4. This is a forced retirement as the unit still works just fine. It has had a small oil leak since I bought the boat. Not much, just a few drops a day, maybe a cup a month. I decided to finally figure out where it was coming from and it turned out to be the fitting on the oil pan drain plug for the oil exchanger... looks like an easy fix.. BUT.. the PO or his hire has slathered the fitting with some kind of silicone goop... and based on other "repairs" I've seen on the boat... I gots me a real bad feeling.. and I'm not going to worry about it... so it's outta here.. going back with 2 generators... a 16EKOZD Kohler, and 9EKOZD Kohler for a quieter nighttime unit. I'll post pictures as we progress, and once the old unit is on the dock, it'll be available with spares.

 

[Passages]

How many hours Did you get out of the old genny?

 

[dottieshusband]

How many hours Did you get out of the old genny?

Hard to say.. it's about 1200 since rebuild, but I don't know what it had on it at rebuild time. It still runs just fine, makes good power, no smoke or oil consumption.. other than the leak.. but even in the sound shield, it's loud.. I'll look at the Hobbs in the morning.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Wise choice on the big and small sets. Interested to see how it all goes and how you like the results. Didn't Bruce used to sell Kohler gensets? I think so. Post photos if you can.

 

[Skytinerant]

I'm also 'retiring' my ONAN. After doing the load calculations, I'm looking at fitting soft-start to the aircon compressors and then one of three options -

1) One gen 50% smaller than the 20kw original or,

2) a 5kw gen for most 'AC stuff' most of the time and a 7kw gen mainly for the aircon with some backup for 'AC stuff' or,

3) a 5kw battery/inverter combo and 7kw gen for just the aircon.

I prefer the simplicity of 1, the flexibility of 2, the technology of 3. Will probably go like you with the 2 gen option and leverage the soft-start to keep the size/cost down

 

[krush]

I'm also 'retiring' my ONAN. After doing the load calculations, I'm looking at fitting soft-start to the aircon compressors and then one of three options -

.......Will probably go like you with the 2 gen option and leverage the soft-start to keep the size/cost down

The softstar is the REAL DEAL. See my thread here (especially post #8) https://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?29962-Honda-eu2000i-to-run-my-A-C

I would get the smallest possible generator. And use soft starts. Also, you can get a small generator and get a "hybrid" inverter that will boost the generator when higher loads come on (starting AC, old lady runs hair dryer, etc). I'd seriously consider the hybrid inverter and just 1 small/quiet generator, especially if you don't mind a tiny bit of load management (don't use range, hot water heater, and all A/C at once).

EDIT: Also read post #35 where the Harbor Freight out performs the Honda: https://www.samsmarine.com/forums/s...nda-eu2000i-to-run-my-A-C&p=321907#post321907

 

[rourkeh]

Just ordered two new generators for my new to me Hatt 61 cockpit motor yacht. From my days in the new construction of bigger yachts I came across a company called MER equipment in Seattle that builds the best generators you can get. They are mostly used for commercial purposes and are rated as continuous duty. They are over built and run for 30,000 - 50,000 hours between overhauls with almost no failure rate. I priced mine and ended up with a 12.5 KW and a 22 KW and they were cheaper than two similar Northern Lights units. I would never buy another Onan, Westerbeke, Northern Lights or similar built to fail generator unit again. If you want something that you can run and forget it, without all the breakdowns and crazy parts prices give this company a look.

merequipment..com

 

[krush]

My boat has a MER genset. It's an izuzu 3cylidner (same engine in my RV and I'd rather a 4cyl kubota). Nothing special, in fact I don't like the way they rigged the raw water pump at all. The truth is none of them make their own engines, controllers, or generator ends. It's all about the packaging that separates them.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Just ordered two new generators for my new to me Hatt 61 cockpit motor yacht. From my days in the new construction of bigger yachts I came across a company called MER equipment in Seattle that builds the best generators you can get. They are mostly used for commercial purposes and are rated as continuous duty. They are over built and run for 30,000 - 50,000 hours between overhauls with almost no failure rate. I priced mine and ended up with a 12.5 KW and a 22 KW and they were cheaper than two similar Northern Lights units. I would never buy another Onan, Westerbeke, Northern Lights or similar built to fail generator unit again. If you want something that you can run and forget it, without all the breakdowns and crazy parts prices give this company a look.

merequipment..com

What was the price on the 12.5?

 

[Skytinerant]

It's good to know that the soft-start has been successful for you - as with many others! Thanks for the info about the hybrid inverter - didn't know it existed - logical really, but thanks for pointing me in a good direction. More research!

 

[jim rosenthal]

MER are the same group that build Bollard generator sets. I have no personal experience with them. They are said to be good; they have a commercial line for fishing boats, and a slightly fancier line for yachts.

As far as "built to fail", I can only comment on NL, which I have two of.

An identical generator set to mine, a NL 6.5kW set, was featured in a NL press release. It was used on the deck of a fishing boat in the Gulf of Alaska, I think, had a little lean-to around it, it was only shut off for oil and filter and impeller changes. I think it had run 20K hours without an overhaul.

If that's built to fail, well, it's more than good enough for me.

 

[Cricket]

Our Phasor has a Kubota engine which makes for great parts availability.
No fancy electronic boads etc.
Also, Phasor's parts availability advice/questions has been spot on.
When we changed the 15 yr old heat exchainger and exhaust elbow, just because they were 15 years old, there was no wait, arrived in the same Awlgrip as new, and the pricing was much less than we expected.
I was convinced we had a bad injector or injector pump last year, they told me they doubted that, ended up being worn out isolators just like they suggested.

 

[dottieshusband]

Power and Motoryacht has an interesting article on gensets this month. They have a simple rule for sizing. Take your amp service and multiply it by 120, and then divide it by .50 to .75... so, in my case, I've got 100 amp service (twin 50's), times 120, equals 12kw, then divided by .75 (because you don't want to run at 100% capacity), equals 16kw.. and again in my case, I'll still capacity of another 9kw, and at night, just running the 9kw to quiet things down. Looking at removal of the mdl4, I noticed that it is screwed directly to the floor, no isolation mounts at all. The new gensets come with sobothane type isolation mounts.

 

[Leland]

According to that formula, if I understand it correctly,I have much more generator power than needed. I have a 50amp service and I have a 12kw and a 20kw - both northern lights. The 20kw has only 500+ hours and the 12kw has 6500 hours. Obviously, the 20kw has had very little use.

 

[Photolomy]

I am surprised that gen + inverter/bank isn't a better solution than gen + gen. I guess you anchor out a lot? Most of our trips are dock to dock to dock... and an inverter bank would seem to handle that, as we generally don't use AC while the boat is moving, as the wind cools things down enough. We would need to power up the gen for meal times or when we are cruising overnight, or when we do anchor out. We do anchor out at times, but I never get good sleep then because I worry about dragging the anchor.

 

[scottinsydney]

We have essentially the same boat as Dottieshusband. Two previous owners ago, one of the two old Kohlers was replaced with a 20KVA Phasor. We have added 1500 hours in 3.5 years and its now about 3500 hours in total. Bullet proof so far. Really well made.

The other old Kohler died before we purchased the boat and now needs to be removed. I doubt we would replace it as the 20KVA Phasor is enough for all our needs even in summer. It uses 0.7 US gallons per hour (or 2.6 litres/hour) so the savings on running a smaller second genset would amount to only about 0.2 to 0.3 US gallons per hour. Then you have to service a second generator.

Our boat is kept on a swing mooring, never goes to a marina, goes away for three week holidays on the anchor, and makes good use of a single 6amp@32 volts solar panel during a sunny summers day. Running the genset when cooking or when we want aircon tops up the batteries.

That said when the old Kohler is taken out I'd like a big lithium house battery in its place to provide power for the inverter to supply the AC 220 volts for fridge/TVs etc. Boat is 32 volts and has 8 x 170amp hour x 8 volt lead batteries in series /parallel for port start/DC House & inverter. The maths is total 340 amps but only 170 amps usable at 32 volts.

Unless custom made, lithium batteries are 12 or 24 volts, and can be cycled down to 10-15% without damage.

So a 60 amp lithium could effectively replace a 100 amp lead acid battery. Or a 200 amp 24 volt lithium would only start to go flat when it was nearly depleted meaning you would have almost ALL of the 200amps @ 24 volts at your disposal. Lead acid go flat at 55% of full charge. Anyway that's how I have read it in all the brochures. Downside is the cost of lithium. Upside is reduced upkeep and/or continuing performance degradation with lead acid.

In the case of my boat's existing house bank we would need 1 x 24 volt 225 amp hour lithium to replace all 8 of our 8 volt lead acid batteries. I would not be running the genset so often to recharge. The port engine starter bank could be reduced to 4 lead acid 8 volt batteries.

Given my 32 volt boat, I need to work out a way to effectively charge a 24 volt lithium from the engines, genset and solar in a simple manner given we have this already in place for 32 volts.

Very interested in all points of view. Happy to be corrected if my maths is incorrect.

 

[Boatsb]

Add a second alternator to one of your engines. Both if you want more charging. Its simple from there to go 24 even 48 volts. I use a bunch of the victron LiFePo batteries. I also like the integrated system victron makes. From solar to generator and everything in between.

 

[doc g]

The other advantage of lithium battery is the rate at which they can be charged. they can be charged at a much higher rate than lead acid without damaging. If you want to reduce fuel consumption , inverters are the way to go. My old boat had two 4000 watt 24 volt inverters stacked to provide 240 to the panel, with (8) 8-D's Lifeline batteries we would run the generator two hours in the morning to make water and charge batteries and two hours in the evening to cook and charge the batteries. Load on the 20 KW NL was about 60-70%.This assumes no a/c use of course. I also had a SeaPower 10 KW system which ran off the stb main engine, so as long as we were moving there was never a need to run the generators. You can also "power share " with the inverter system to downsize the gen or if you are running off only one 50 amp cord. I had it set up that I could only draw 40 amps thru the 50 amp cord as a safety factor, if we'd draw more it would come from the inverter banks.......Pat

 

[jim rosenthal]

The Seapower unit sounds like what used to be called a cruising alternator- a big alternator run off one of the mains for AC whilst running the boat. Very useful on long passages especially.

 

[krush]

I also had a SeaPower 10 KW system which ran off the stb main engine, so as long as we were moving there was never a need to run the generators. You can also "power share " with the inverter system to downsize the gen or if you are running off only one 50 amp cord. I had it set up that I could only draw 40 amps thru the 50 amp cord as a safety factor, if we'd draw more it would come from the inverter banks.......Pat

I thought about in the future rigging up my own SeaPower like system...it's from these guys, right? https://www.meps.com

How much was your setup? A cycloconverter could take in the variable frequency of an alternator converted into an AC generator...using higher voltages allows better efficiency and smaller wire.