new bertram hull delam pictures

[motoryacht lover]

I apologize for not knowing how to do the link thing but you have to go to the hull truth and look at the pictures of the Ferretti/Bertram 63 that has delaminated. I think you will find it amazing. I feel sorry for that particular owner and the any of the other owners of the Ferretti Bertrams.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Try this:
http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=229966&start=1

 

[nor'easter]

wow,
what a mess. not good at all in the face of the economy and falling sales #s.
I rode the new 36 a year ago in 3 footers. boat sounded like it was coming apart. the sales rep kept pounding on her at 27 kts and said "she can take more than we can". maybe not.
Glad I have a hatt!

 

[Genesis]

Jesus.

Note that the core is clearly not bonded over huge areas. Now you get the usual working of the laminate in seas, its not bonded together, and instead of one unitized cored structure (very strong) what you have instead is two surfaces grinding the core in the middle (very weak.) The outside layer eventually fractures and this is the result.

This sort of problem is IMHO a massive failure of quality control in production.

Never mind that its quite clear the bottom is cored - something I'd never accept in any boat. Have a look at the outside layer that separated - notice how thick (that's sarcasm!) that is?

Do you want that or do you want a 1"+ thick solid layer of laminated fiberglass with no BS in the middle between you and the water?

You pays your money and you makes your choice; this ought to make for great advertising for Bertram/Feretti.

My how the mighty have fallen.....

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Once you look at that, you realize that buying an older sea-proven Hatteras makes sense, even if you totally repower, redecorate, repaint, etc. The end result is a far superior boat in terms of quality and safety plus you get exactly what you want at a fraction of the cost of new.

 

[Bob Bradley]

Hey, if Feretti can do that for Bertram, just think about what Fiat is going to be able to do for Chrysler!

 

[Pascal]

Hey, if Feretti can do that for Bertram, just think about what Fiat is going to be able to do for Chrysler!

...or Brunswick to Hatteras!

 

[67hat34c]

Showed this to co worker who use to handle boat claims. Said he has seen delamination this bad before. One frequent sinner was Regal Boats in orlando and another was of course Bay Liner.

Hull damage caused by Delamination is not a covered loss so everyone got denial.

 

[fissioneng]

Could be a claim under latent defect or manufacturing defect. Tough to prove.

 

[Genesis]

Could be a claim under latent defect or manufacturing defect. Tough to prove.

Most insurance policies for boats specifically exclude delamination. Check yours.

 

[BUSTER]

Looking at the photo,it seems like it came apart at the turn of the spray rail/strake? I was under the impression that Bertrams were solid glass below the waterline? I have seen late 80's Vikings delaminate and blimp out above the waterline,but never below it.Knowing how thin the inner layer of glass usually is behind the core,going even as fast as the photo indicates looks scary.

 

[67hat34c]

Hull delamination will not be covered, it has to be caused by a covered peril.

 

[Bertramp]

And in reality, insurance company should not be on the hook for that. Bertram should do a recall and or repair. They don't make 'em like they used to.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

Of course insurance doesn't cover something that is clearly a manufacturing defect. I am sure that Bertram will bend over backwards for this guy. If they don't I am sure he will own the company shortly.

 

[spartonboat1]

Once you look at that, you realize that buying an older sea-proven Hatteras makes sense, even if you totally repower, redecorate, repaint, etc. The end result is a far superior boat in terms of quality and safety plus you get exactly what you want at a fraction of the cost of new.

I have read some studies that propose that these old Hatts get stronger, provided the laminate and gel is not mechanically damaged. I remember the very first big wave I hit of 4-5 feet and was surprised, then noticed how well she behaved...no shaking or unusual "working" in the seas.

I have had other owners of Non-Hatts aboard who noted how well founded she seemed to be...ride, stiffness, etc.

 

[fissioneng]

Most insurance policies for boats specifically exclude delamination. Check yours.

Hull delamination will not be covered, it has to be caused by a covered peril.

Of course insurance doesn't cover something that is clearly a manufacturing defect. I am sure that Bertram will bend over backwards for this guy. If they don't I am sure he will own the company shortly.

Well, I went through something like this with my old insurance company. Here are the words from that policy:

Under Property Coverage, Item I.A.3, Exclusions, the policy states: "However, if the loss or damage has not resulted from the negligence of any insured, this exclusion does not apply to loss, damage, or expense directly caused by explosion, bursting of boilers, breakage of shafts or any latent defect in the hull or machinery (excluding the cost and expenses of replacing or renewing the defective part)."

Under definitions: "Latent Defect means a flaw in the material of the Insured Yacht's hull or machinery existing when the Insured Yacht or it's components were built and not discoverable by common means of testing. Latent Defect does not include wear and tear, gradual deterioration, corrosion, rust, electrolysis, osmosis, weathering or inherent vice."

So, by my read of this, for this policy, it MIGHT be covered.

My current policy has no exclusion for delamination.

 

[GJH]

Actually Jeff, the language you quoted IS the exclusion. First, the insurance company would likely argue that the defect is discoverable by common means of testing. Second, note that they do not cover the replacement or renewing of the defective part, in this case the delaminated hull. They might (emphasis) cover the boat sinking, or water damage if they don't argue my first point. Really not very different from why insurance companies don't pay for blister repairs, this just being on a much larger scale.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Who would WANT to own such a company? I wouldn't have it as a gift. I couldn't be paid to work for an outfit that would build a boat like that.

What's interesting to me is that the best-built sportfishing boat I've ever seen- the Hines-Farley 47 and 63 boats- were built with hulls cored with either Airex or Divinycell, I can't recall which. Sonny Hines warranteed those hulls for his lifetime, as long as the owner did not drill any new holes or install through-hulls anywhere but in the sea chest. But those were handbuilt boats that had the best of everything in them, and Bertrams are just another production boat.

I suppose we are all judging without knowing all the facts, but it doesn't look very good, does it? Look how long it took Ocean Yachts to try to shed their reputation as "flexible flyers"- and I am not sure they've ever been able to do it. It's a pity- Bertrams had a good name, back in their day.

 

[fissioneng]

Actually Jeff, the language you quoted IS the exclusion. First, the insurance company would likely argue that the defect is discoverable by common means of testing. Second, note that they do not cover the replacement or renewing of the defective part, in this case the delaminated hull. They might (emphasis) cover the boat sinking, or water damage if they don't argue my first point. Really not very different from why insurance companies don't pay for blister repairs, this just being on a much larger scale.

I neglected to say that the above section I quoted was from "Manufacturer's defects or design defects"

So the way I read this is that it is an exclusion to an exclusion because of this phrase "if the loss or damage has not resulted from the negligence of any insured, this exclusion does not apply".

Anyway, I don't want this to be an insurance thread. I agree that the insurance company probably wouldn't pay for this. I had a denied claim for a latent defect because the damage was "progressive in nature and occurred over a period of time."

I really think insurance only pays for disasters (weather) and accidents (running up on a jetty), not much else. And of course liability......

 

[stormchaser]

Seems like the info on this is spreading like wildfire across the net...not good for Bertram... It's sad, they USED to make some of the nicest and strongest baots around...almost as nice as a Hatt. It was a really dumb move to go away from solid hulls. It's now spread over to http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/g...tastrophic-delamination-new-bertram-63-a.html