NEED HELP about early 38' Convertibles,

[jarhead24]

I am asking for some help with the early 38' Convertible; namely 1968 to 1974. I am looking at three boats that are from the Chesapeake Bay. Two are gasoline powered and one is diesel (8V53N).

I have owned several boats in varying lenths and styles, but I have been waiting patiently for a Hatteras. So I consider this my first REAL BOAT.

The two gas boats are 454/350 powered; both repowers and very clean. In fact the oldest one is unmolested and has been shed kept by it's 2nd owner for quite a long time.

I know the fuel tanks will have to be replaced; but what I would like to know is performance specs on these gas boats. Namely fuel burn rates, real cruise speeds and opinions on these as gas powered.

I am a "wrench" and a 100 ton Captain; have experience on the newer Hatts and I have an eye for the older ones. I just have never had the opportunity to run a 38' with gas or diesel and would like to have some input.

Being about a 100 hour per year cruiser, and not fishing this boat, I really can't justify a diesel. In addition, I know the Detroits are excellent, but I feel a weight penalty and perfomance penalty as compared to a gasoline powered sistership.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jarhead24]

Need some help here PLEASE???

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Hey you old jarhead --
My 36 aluminum Roamer at 14,000 with fresh 1978 Merc's - 330 / 454s raw water cooled, runs WOT at 4400, cruise is around 2800/ 22 mph and nets about .75 mpg's. Gears are Warners at 2.57:1 and the wheels are about 24 X 23 three blade cupped Michigans on 1-3/8 shafts. I used to get over 1mpg until I added the flybridge.
The boat will run an honest 35 mph wot. Your Hatt is almost twice the #s and way better on the draft too. The Roamer has a steep fore foot, but is almost flat at the back with a 7 degree deadrise, sharp chine and 10 X 36 Bennet tabs.
The keel is also 1 inch plate which is like a knife. How wide is the keel on your Hatt? My '74 58' is at least 12 inches wide. YIKES !! Hope this helps a little. C'mon guys, how about some INPUT ?? ws

 

[Pascal]

at 100 hrs a year, gas shoudl still make sense on a 38 footer... i wish i could help you with specifics... there are a few gas hatt. owners who should be able to get you some details on fuel burn, etc...

although in all fairness on older boats the engine conditions, props, gear and mods over the year will impact performance so each boat will be different. nothing will replace a sea trial to make sure performance is adequate

 

[Maynard Rupp]

Boy, let me tell you that I have the answers for the 454 cu.in. Crusader 350hp. engines. ours are in a series II 36C Hat. the boat weighs, according to Hatteras, 26000 lbs. At 8 knots, about 9.5 mph. we get about .9 nautical mpg. or about 10 gph. At 3200 rpm cruise, or for that matter at just about any other power setting we get between .5 and .6 nmpg. At 3200rpm our boat goes about 19 mph. or around 18 knots. About 38 gallons per hour. Actually we operat at around 3080 rpm and burn 26gph at about 17mph. This has all been verified over 300 hours in the last 6 months with our Navman digital fuel flow system and verified by actual consumption.

 

[richardoren]

Hi Jarhead,

You're probably best off buying the best boat you can get, regardless of engine type, if...

1. Resale doesn't worry you (diesels will sell for more, or will at least sell for cheap during market lulls when you can't even give away a gasser)

2. You're sure the gassers can adjust timing changes for the ethanol in fuel

3. You don't need the extra torque diesel engines give you in heavy seas

4. You don't cruise enough to worry about fuel costs (when I looked into the consumption differences on my boat with gas or diesel, it reports were close to half the burn for diesel).

5. You figure the fuel tank replacement into the purchase price.

No Flames folks - I'm just a beginner here weened on baby Hatts.

 

[jarhead24]

Hey you old jarhead --
My 36 aluminum Roamer at 14,000 with fresh 1978 Merc's - 330 / 454s raw water cooled, runs WOT at 4400, cruise is around 2800/ 22 mph and nets about .75 mpg's. Gears are Warners at 2.57:1 and the wheels are about 24 X 23 three blade cupped Michigans on 1-3/8 shafts. I used to get over 1mpg until I added the flybridge.
The boat will run an honest 35 mph wot. Your Hatt is almost twice the #s and way better on the draft too. The Roamer has a steep fore foot, but is almost flat at the back with a 7 degree deadrise, sharp chine and 10 X 36 Bennet tabs.
The keel is also 1 inch plate which is like a knife. How wide is the keel on your Hatt? My '74 58' is at least 12 inches wide. YIKES !! Hope this helps a little. C'mon guys, how about some INPUT ?? ws

Bill, Thank you for the help! The one boat has 4 blade wheels (pitch/dia unknown to me) which I feel will give her better mid range and cruise. Your Chris Craft is a beautiful boat! I am currently in a 33' Alglas (Pacemaker) with a pair of 2005 350/330 Crusaders. It is actually a pretty fast rig with the 4 blade wheels and some other work I did to her. Too small as it only has one stateroom (Kids!!).

 

[jarhead24]

at 100 hrs a year, gas shoudl still make sense on a 38 footer... i wish i could help you with specifics... there are a few gas hatt. owners who should be able to get you some details on fuel burn, etc...

although in all fairness on older boats the engine conditions, props, gear and mods over the year will impact performance so each boat will be different. nothing will replace a sea trial to make sure performance is adequate

Thanks so much! I will be utilizing a surveyor and we will be conducting a full prepurchase survey with a mechanical survey as well. Then obviously a sea trial. I am a firm believer in survey's as another set of trained eyes may detect something I missed. Need it anyway for insurance so I decided to go all the way and do the mechanical as well. I want to have all of the information I can.

 

[jarhead24]

Boy, let me tell you that I have the answers for the 454 cu.in. Crusader 350hp. engines. ours are in a series II 36C Hat. the boat weighs, according to Hatteras, 26000 lbs. At 8 knots, about 9.5 mph. we get about .9 nautical mpg. or about 10 gph. At 3200 rpm cruise, or for that matter at just about any other power setting we get between .5 and .6 nmpg. At 3200rpm our boat goes about 19 mph. or around 18 knots. About 38 gallons per hour. Actually we operat at around 3080 rpm and burn 26gph at about 17mph. This has all been verified over 300 hours in the last 6 months with our Navman digital fuel flow system and verified by actual consumption.

Thank you for the information! I figured speeds pretty close to that by SWAG! But as far as fuel rates; it was anyone's guess for me! Are you running 4 blade wheels and if so what are your sizes on the wheels? 38 gallons per hour is very respectable for such a large boat. I started looking at older 41 C's, but the 38's caught my eye.

 

[jarhead24]

Hi Jarhead,

You're probably best off buying the best boat you can get, regardless of engine type, if...

1. Resale doesn't worry you (diesels will sell for more, or will at least sell for cheap during market lulls when you can't even give away a gasser)

2. You're sure the gassers can adjust timing changes for the ethanol in fuel

3. You don't need the extra torque diesel engines give you in heavy seas

4. You don't cruise enough to worry about fuel costs (when I looked into the consumption differences on my boat with gas or diesel, it reports were close to half the burn for diesel).

5. You figure the fuel tank replacement into the purchase price.

No Flames folks - I'm just a beginner here weened on baby Hatts.

Thanks for the info! I agree that under 100 hours per year is a disservice to any diesel inboard! Tank replacement is being factored; but one of the boats I am looking at, it seems as if the owner is indifferent to this enourmous cost because the boat is a Hatteras. I obtained an estimate for just over $11,000 from a local yard. This was an "engine back" fuel system replacement; meaning everything from the engines back would be replaced. This included the cost of fabrication on the new tanks.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I have seen the diesel boat in Edgewater and it is in rough shape. When I saw it, it was neglected and I believe one engine did not run. It is a huge project and I am not sure I would take it on even if the boat were given to me. I think it is basically sound, but there's a long road ahead. I would not buy it unless it was a giveaway price and you were ready to restore a boat. Top to bottom, stem to stern, gunwale to gunwale, no parts excepted.

The two gasoline boats look good to me. The shed-kept boat in particular looks nice. I think they are priced high, but I have not seen these particular vessels. The 38 convertible is a fairly rare boat- I think they made twenty or thirty of them. The layout is unusual and you either love it or don't like it at all. They are not particularly fast boats; they weigh quite a bit more than the 36C of similar vintage and I have been told they don't plane as easily. I think with the gas engines you would have a 17kt cruise, but I am guessing.

Good luck with this and post further questions if you have them. They are dated boats, and not nearly as popular as the 36C, but nice looking, lots of room, and from what I hear, reasonable boats to run. I have not been on one out in the weather.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

Thank you for the information! I figured speeds pretty close to that by SWAG! But as far as fuel rates; it was anyone's guess for me! Are you running 4 blade wheels and if so what are your sizes on the wheels? 38 gallons per hour is very respectable for such a large boat. I started looking at older 41 C's, but the 38's caught my eye.

Are props are 26' dia. and 23" pitch. They originally had 25" pitch, but that didn't permit the engines to get into the 4000 to 4400 rpm range that Crusader wants. At 23' the engines turn 4100 rpm at full throttle. Our Warner gearboxes are 2.91 to 1.

 

[jarhead24]

I have seen the diesel boat in Edgewater and it is in rough shape. When I saw it, it was neglected and I believe one engine did not run. It is a huge project and I am not sure I would take it on even if the boat were given to me. I think it is basically sound, but there's a long road ahead. I would not buy it unless it was a giveaway price and you were ready to restore a boat. Top to bottom, stem to stern, gunwale to gunwale, no parts excepted.

The two gasoline boats look good to me. The shed-kept boat in particular looks nice. I think they are priced high, but I have not seen these particular vessels. The 38 convertible is a fairly rare boat- I think they made twenty or thirty of them. The layout is unusual and you either love it or don't like it at all. They are not particularly fast boats; they weigh quite a bit more than the 36C of similar vintage and I have been told they don't plane as easily. I think with the gas engines you would have a 17kt cruise, but I am guessing.

Good luck with this and post further questions if you have them. They are dated boats, and not nearly as popular as the 36C, but nice looking, lots of room, and from what I hear, reasonable boats to run. I have not been on one out in the weather.

Jim,

Thanks for the advice; Both boats are overpriced from my research. I like the 36, but finding one with a second stateroom seems to be a bear. The diesel boat I am looking at is not the one you mentioned; it is out of the state of Maryland. I am still looking at eveything I can at this point and have not yet committed to any specific boat.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I agree the prices are high. However, asking prices are frequently not selling prices, so if you like what you see, it might be worth an offer.

It's hard to know what to do with a boat purchase like this: gas engines are cheaper to replace, but there's the tank issue to deal with. Diesels run longer and cheaper, but any diesel in one of these boats is old, unless it's been repowered, and then you're looking at a diesel repower. Lots of bucks. And the older Hatteras market has softened up a lot lately. I think if I were anticipating a repower, I would buy the best gas-powered boat I could, since it would probably be less money, and put set of modern engines in. That's a long time and a lot of money, though.

There are not many of the galley-up 36s around, but keep an eye on the market. They show up from time to time, and generally are less popular, so you might find a bargain if you wait it out. Frankly, I would rather have a 36 than a 38. I can't pretend to any neutrality on this, of course, since I already own one.

 

[jim rosenthal]

There is a galley-up diesel boat in Orange Beach, AL, named "Nothings Easy", asking in the eighties, looks very nice, older CATs at 210hp. Might be worth looking at. It has the second lower bunks setup, and appears well-kept.

 

[jim rosenthal]

There is also a galley-up 36C in Mobile, named "OPOS", with older Cummins diesels. 94,500. Has a tower and all....why are all the galley-up models in the Gulf Coast area?

 

[jim rosenthal]

AND a gas boat, galley-up, in Riviera Beach, FL, for 75,900....

 

[jim rosenthal]

AND, a galley-up boat with CAT diesels, in Port Canaveral, FL...

 

[jim rosenthal]

AND, a galley-up boat in Ft Lauderdale, $135,000...

 

[jim rosenthal]

So there went the last hour or so.....they are out there, but not up here. Anyway, there's a few to look at...nice time of the year to be shopping for a boat down in FL or AL...lucky you.