Need advice on value of 50 MY (1966)

[Semiahmoo]

Hello again. I posted a few months back regarding my interest in a listed 1966 50 foot flushdeck. Since then have done quite a bit of back and forth on the boat, looked into insurance values, etc. Wanted to update you in here as you provided so much great feedback on my initial question. (I have also since been told how great Samsmarine is and have to say I agree completely. Amazing forum you have here.

First up, here is the boat listing:
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/196...0312/Bellingham/WA/United-States#.UsSvo_RDuSo

Since first looking the boat over in the fall, I spoke with a few of the older boat owners I know and they all said Hatteras was a very sound hull, great reputation, etc. They also indicated the original Detroit 8V71N's were in their day, great engines, but seem to be considered too noisy/messy when compared to newer 4 stroke diesel technology. I located a mechanic in the are who does work on these motors and he too said they are somewhat outdated, but remain in a lot of boats and with the relative low hrs of this example (app 2500 hours) they could provide me several years more of reliable boating and if I keep the rpms down to around or just above hull speed, reasonable fuel efficiency as well. I asked if it would be a lot better than the fuel burn I experience with my current twin 454 38 foot cruiser and he said it should be quite a bit better.

When it came to sale price, the three guys I spoke with indicated the asking price was quite a bit above where it should be given the boat has not been repowered, the hull paint is just "average" (some flaking here and there), there is a some exposed, wet/soft wood showing through on the portside walk through support that separates the outside walkway from the aft deck area. It's a small 3 inch by 3 inch area that is exposed, though I assume more of the surrounding wood could be bad as well. Would have to sand it all down, putty the bad spot, and then repaint.

The windows are stock, and seem to allow a bit of condensation moisture to collect on the bottom sill. The wood seems sound ,but is discolored a bit.

The interior is clean, but stock/dated as well. The main bathroom is fine, though dated, but the second bath up near the bow looks like the shower doesn't work and the toilet seemed iffy as well.

GPS, sounder, etc are dated - about ten years old.

No A/C.

I believe the genset is original as well. Told it works but haven't tested. (negotations stalled)

No tender, though it has a power davit on the roof that I was told works.

So I love the look of the boat, I'm a fan of the hardtop/no flybridge look, but everyone I spoke with said that's a knock in price as the flybridge is so popular with PNW boaters.

As we head into the new year, I am trying to get an idea as to actual value of this boat. Not too many go to market, and those that do seem to be priced in a very wide range. One of the insurance guys I spoke with said their "system" (whatever that is) indicated a likely value of low to mid 70's. Does that sound right?


Looking for some help/guidance here. Like the boat, but feel the current asking price is too high, and yet, having trouble negotiating a fair price because I'm not sure what this thing is worth.

And yes, I know something is worth what someone else is willing to pay - but there's also the saying a fool and his money are quickly parted, and I'm trying to lessen the risk of playing the fool on this deal. I would get the boat surveyed of course, as it appears the insurance would require that regardless.

Thank you again - and apologies for the long post.

 

[Boatsb]

Look at 53's. They are basically the next generation of the 50. They sell around the ask of that one and should be more plentiful.

 

[saltshaker]

Look at 53's. They are basically the next generation of the 50. They sell around the ask of that one and should be more plentiful.

I'll second that. You can get a newer and better equipped 53MY for that asking price. That being said, Hatts are not as plentiful in the PNW and boat prices in general are a bit higher there. If you like the look of the boat without the bridge, then your options will be even fewer as most 53MY's and 50MYs will have a bridge. The boat your looking at looks pretty decent in the pictures but as you've already pointed out, will need a lot of updating. That will add up real fast and do very little in adding any resale value if/when you decide to sell. Look for a 53MY that's set up close to the way you want it. As for the 8V71N's and Detroit Diesels in general, that's what's in most of these Hatts and there is rarely a good reason to repower them. Those 8V71N's will run forever if you take care of them and you don't have to run them at hull speed. They'll run fine at rated cruise and will still outlast most of us. Yes they are a bit dated, load and messy but they're also very simple and reliable. Hatteras is one of the best boats out there and you won't find support that's even close to what Hatteras offers even for these old boats. You've chosen the right brand now you just need to find the right boat. This one may be right for you but first evaluate how much you need and are willing to spend to make her the way you want her. If she was on the east coat I doubt they'd get 50K for her but hard to say just from the pics and the listing.

 

[bostonhatteras]

I'll second that. You can get a newer and better equipped 53MY for that asking price. That being said, Hatts are not as plentiful in the PNW and boat prices in general are a bit higher there. If you like the look of the boat without the bridge, then your options will be even fewer as most 53MY's and 50MYs will have a bridge. The boat your looking at looks pretty decent in the pictures but as you've already pointed out, will need a lot of updating. That will add up real fast and do very little in adding any resale value if/when you decide to sell. Look for a 53MY that's set up close to the way you want it. As for the 8V71N's and Detroit Diesels in general, that's what's in most of these Hatts and there is rarely a good reason to repower them. Those 8V71N's will run forever if you take care of them and you don't have to run them at hull speed. They'll run fine at rated cruise and will still outlast most of us. Yes they are a bit dated, load and messy but they're also very simple and reliable. Hatteras is one of the best boats out there and you won't find support that's even close to what Hatteras offers even for these old boats. You've chosen the right brand now you just need to find the right boat. This one may be right for you but first evaluate how much you need and are willing to spend to make her the way you want her. If she was on the east coat I doubt they'd get 50K for her but hard to say just from the pics and the listing.

X2 on this. Looking at the pics and your description I was thinking 50k but that's my northeast sensibilities. Lots and lots of little things that will add up in a boat like this 50. If you're considering budget and putting numbers together you better include 20k a year minimum to update her. Find one that has already had the work done.

 

[Semiahmoo]

Thank you so much for the quick responses.

Besides the asthetic updates of carpet/flooring/furnishings/gps etc., are there any other major updates I would be looking at that you would deem essential that this era of Hatteras requires?

The generator is an Onan 15kw. Don't know much about them.

I concur on the Detroits - pretty much what the mechanic said. Louder than today's 4 stroke diesels, but relatively easy to maintain, so doesn't make much sense to repower, and they should last me many more years, or outlive me altogether. And I'm not into "go fast" anymore. Just want a smooth, comfortable ride. Done the go fast with the 454 Magnums. Can literally watch the fuel gauge creep to the left on our way to the Islands. 9 or 10 knots would be fine by me. Time to slow down and enjoy the ride more these days anyways.

Man, I sure wish it was listed at $50k. Can't believe prices for a Hatteras here in the PNW would be that much higher than the other side of the country. Just like I don't think it will be any time soon the owner would be willing to slash their asking price in half. I don't think he'll get a buyer at anywhere close to 99k though.

Maybe I just wait it out and see what happens, and keep looking then. I do love the look and feel of the Hatteras, stepping onto that boat felt like a tank. Loved it. And then I'm pretty sure I teared up just a bit looking at those walk in engine rooms. After crawling around in a shallow bilge with a pair of big gassers, those engine rooms looked like heaven.

 

[jim rosenthal]

This boat looks fairly good, but is dated and cluttered. And no AC is a problem as well- fitting AC to a boat this old is a real problem, since it is likely to involve wiring additions as well. Of course, in the PNW you may not need it as much as we do out here.

I think this is a decent 40K boat- maybe. I think, as do the others here, that you should keep looking. The 53 MY had a lot of improvements and updates, plus three feet more interior room, and they made them for twenty years or nearly that long. They ARE harder to find out there, but I would keep your powder dry and keep looking.

I happen to like the looks of these boats without the bridge, too, but most people want it. Reselling the boat without a bridge would take longer, but it isn't impossible.

In a funny way, the owner of the 50MY has done you a favor by pricing it so high. You aren't going to pay that, so you are free to look for another boat. Which, in the long run, may serve you well, if you can find a decent 53 with 8-71s naturals.

After all, you are talking about two similar but not identical models of a vintage boat. You might as well try to find the later one that already has the improvements that Hatteras decided to put into the design.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[rsmith]

No AC but it has a fireplace! How cool is that. 50k is about right. Never feel bad about making a rediculous offer. You never know.

 

[saltshaker]

Don't be afraid to offer what you feel it's worth to you. They'll either counter, reject or accept your offer. If they're not ready to accept your offer then you decide if you want to pursue it further or move on to the next boat. There was a boat I was interested in and the owner had it listed for 350K, originally listed just under 500K. They weren't willing to negotiate price or address any deficiencies. Boat was way overpriced and the owner wasn't happy that the market had dropped so much. Eventually they lowered the price to 299K and then to a firm 250K. Boat recently sold for 120K. At some point every owner will either come to terms with the market value of their boat or end up keeping it.

 

[Fanfare]

We have owned our Hatteras 50MY for 49 years as of Jan. 7. She has been a fine boat. She has been continuously maintained and upgraded over the years. While the 53s have benefitted from 20 years of production improvements the 50s were built with little consideration of cost cutting and are very solidly built. This particular boat has been on the market for several years so they might welcome any bids. Give it a try. You just have to realize that there is a reason these boats are priced at a fraction of new boat costs. Our boat has never had a major structural flaw. Working on these vessels can be fun and relaxing--but they do take work! Much depends on how you want the boat to look.

This boat originally had three reverse cycle heating/AC units, compressors are in the port engine room. These may have been removed for installation of a furnace but this would be a lot of work, so they may still be there. Look for the compressors and the vents, 2 in salon, one in galley, one in master stateroom.

One member of the forum wrote me that their 50 hull had a balsa core underwater which caused them trouble. Mine has a solid fiberglass hull although the decks are cored. This is the only major problem I have ever heard of on any 50 and that only on their boat. I don't know if this was a failed experiment by Hatteras or what.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Don't be afraid to offer what you feel it's worth to you. They'll either counter, reject or accept your offer. If they're not ready to accept your offer then you decide if you want to pursue it further or move on to the next boat. There was a boat I was interested in and the owner had it listed for 350K, originally listed just under 500K. They weren't willing to negotiate price or address any deficiencies. Boat was way overpriced and the owner wasn't happy that the market had dropped so much. Eventually they lowered the price to 299K and then to a firm 250K. Boat recently sold for 120K. At some point every owner will either come to terms with the market value of their boat or end up keeping it.

This is what is known as "holding out for the low bid", quite common these days, as owners of boats for sale seek to minimize return on their investment. Or something like that.

 

[Paul Gwiz]

The pics look good. . It looks like it was kept up . the little stuff adds up real quick. The value question is what's it worth to you & how much will it cost to get it to the point you want. I believe Jim is about spot on @ 40k or so . You can figure 20k to get decent electronics plus 20k in cushions, carpet , window treatments, plus the a/c . I can't even begin to guess what that will set you back. It is a foolish idea to even conceder buying a boat. It is not for the faint hearted, I believe it to be border line insanity..........It was one of the best investments I have ever made. It has brought me the most enjoyment & challenge I could encounter. I had the very best 27 days of my Life bringing our boat from Rhode Island to Ft. Myers , that was one of those priceless things in life & the adventure was awesome & the expense was not too bad. We have a 43DC & it fits us well. I would buy a 50' Hatteras if I could get a deal I was comfortable with. Yes trying to figure out what is a fair value on any boat seems to be a task on it's own. What other purchase can you make that is a good deal & a bad deal at the same time? even @ 40k you can be at 100k + before you know it.
Good luck

 

[Semiahmoo]

=Fanfare;241941

One member of the forum wrote me that their 50 hull had a balsa core underwater which caused them trouble. Mine has a solid fiberglass hull although the decks are cored. This is the only major problem I have ever heard of on any 50 and that only on their boat. I don't know if this was a failed experiment or what.

Balsa in the hull???

I thought all these boats had no balsa -solid fiberglass below the waterline. That was one of the big bonuses I considered when reviewing the older Hatts.

Anyone else know if this is true for the older 50's? Could that person who told you that have been mistaken, or perhaps was referring to the decking?

Maybe they actually owned a Sea Ray?

 

[saltshaker]

Balsa in the hull???

I thought all these boats had no balsa -solid fiberglass below the waterline. That was one of the big bonuses I considered when reviewing the older Hatts.

Anyone else know if this is true for the older 50's? Could that person who told you that have been mistaken, or perhaps was referring to the decking?

Maybe they actually owned a Sea Ray?

He may have been referring to the transom. Most if not all of Hatts have cored transoms. If you get the hull ID and call Hatteras they will tell you if the hull is solid or cored.

 

[Semiahmoo]

=saltshaker;241962]He may have been referring to the transom. Most if not all of Hatts have cored transoms. If you get the hull ID and call Hatteras they will tell you if the hull is solid or cored.

Thanks - good to know.

 

[pizzazsdaddy]

Hi Semiahmoo

Does the boat look as good as the pictures in person? Give us a number. If a 10 is a brand new boat at the boat show, how does this one show? 5? 7? 9? There is no way to just put an arbitrary number on it. The insurance guy might be close at $70K if the boat is decent. However, that $50K number might be more accurate because the stove heaters REPLACING the AC system is a costly negative.

The old 50s were built like a tank. Those 871Ns, if maintained will outlive both of us!

Can you afford a nice 53?

 

[Semiahmoo]

=pizzazsdaddy;241967]Hi Semiahmoo

Does the boat look as good as the pictures in person? Give us a number. If a 10 is a brand new boat at the boat show, how does this one show? 5? 7? 9? There is no way to just put an arbitrary number on it. The insurance guy might be close at $70K if the boat is decent. However, that $50K number might be more accurate because the stove heaters REPLACING the AC system is a costly negative.

The old 50s were built like a tank. Those 871Ns, if maintained will outlive both of us!

Can you afford a nice 53?

The boat is not quite as clean as those pics suggest - according to one of the brokers with the listing it hasn't been used for nearly two years. The owner would live aboard it on weekends during the summer months, but little actual water use in recent years. And I agree, the furnace is fine for winter months live-a-board but overall, the lack of A/C is a knock for summer cruising, though up this way, summers on the water remains pretty comfortable without A/C.

I would put the condition overall at a 6.5 our of ten due to dated interior, the exterior needing some spit and polish, bit of touch up paint, etc.

 

[Finalee]

The pics look good. . It looks like it was kept up . the little stuff adds up real quick. The value question is what's it worth to you & how much will it cost to get it to the point you want. I believe Jim is about spot on @ 40k or so . You can figure 20k to get decent electronics plus 20k in cushions, carpet , window treatments, plus the a/c . I can't even begin to guess what that will set you back. It is a foolish idea to even conceder buying a boat. It is not for the faint hearted, I believe it to be border line insanity..........It was one of the best investments I have ever made. It has brought me the most enjoyment & challenge I could encounter. I had the very best 27 days of my Life bringing our boat from Rhode Island to Ft. Myers , that was one of those priceless things in life & the adventure was awesome & the expense was not too bad. We have a 43DC & it fits us well. I would buy a 50' Hatteras if I could get a deal I was comfortable with. Yes trying to figure out what is a fair value on any boat seems to be a task on it's own. What other purchase can you make that is a good deal & a bad deal at the same time? even @ 40k you can be at 100k + before you know it.
Good luck

Curious to know how the $20,000 for electronics is calculated? I use an IPad for a GPS - $600, Never turn the radar on, Same VHF for 20 years, can a depth finder be the difference ?

 

[rsmith]

Curious to know how the $20,000 for electronics is calculated? I use an IPad for a GPS - $600, Never turn the radar on, Same VHF for 20 years, can a depth finder be the difference ?

Another one of those out of the air #'s

 

[rsmith]

There is coring down to the waterline in the transom. If you pull out the stern nav light you can see it. I've never had any soft spots on the boat. And never one blister on the bottom.

 

[Semiahmoo]

I figured about $4-5k for interior updates. New flooring, furnishings, etc.

That does not include getting the front bathroom which seems to have been relegated to more of a storage closet right now.

Agree electronics can be updated for about $2k give or take, and I'm with those who keep using the same VHF. As long as it works, it's all good! This stuff has come way down in price in recent years.

I would do much of the exterior painting myself. A bit here, and a bit there over time. Not a big deal. Maybe a bit of $$$ for some wood refurbishing prior to repainting.

Figure I would want the electrical outlets grounded if they are not. Don't believe Hatts of this vintage had isolators yet. Not too bad $$ wise to do so.

So I assumed maybe $10k the first year getting her looking a little "newer" on the inside, touching her up on the outside, picking up a little tender to throw on the top, update the gps system, and then from there, more $$$ in the coming years improving her as is the case with any boat.

Where I'm stuck is in the initial value as I consider going into full on negotiation mode here. Boat is listed at 99k. Sounds like everyone here feels that is way too much $$$ to pay for a boat of this age and w/original mechanicals. I agree on that.

Just not sure what is a more fair/realistic price point.

So far some in here have indicated as low as $40k, others say it would be closer to the $70k the one insurance carrier I talked to suggested.

Guess I can use that as a rough model to go from - don't pay anymore than $70k, and a deal somewhere between the 70 and 40 markers would be deemed reasonable.

At least that's how I'm sizing it all up at this point...