Lower helm visibility.

[oscarvan]

We're getting closer. Not quite there yet, but closer. As we surf YW we keep coming back to the Hatts. Major factor is, of course, layout, specifically galley up, galley down. Aside from the livability which is personal and an endless discussion I don't really want to start there's the following:

On the 53/58 with galley down visibility from the lower helm is good. Lots of big windows, almost 360º. A few dead spots towards the stern, but one or two steps and you can cover them.

On the galley up (58 or 58 LRC) and ED's with bulkheads between lower helm and salon not so much.

How big of a factor is this? Are you opening side doors every 2 minutes to scan behind?

Yes I know you don't have these problems from the fly bridge, but we intend to (and have in the past) extend the season and be on the water when it's cold, and of course there's the hot days on the bay where inside and AC will be one of the reasons we're giving up the open cockpit of a sail boat for a power boat.

Any input is appreciated....

 

[Freeebird]

Who cares what’s behind you?

Seriously, short of docking stern in, it’s really not an issue IMO. You can always install cameras if that bugs you. Even when there’s no bulkhead behind you, your view is very limited. You also have radar (I assume) if you want to keep track of what’s coming up behind you.

 

[Walter P]

Oscar, I understand your concern. I sold my 1982 48 MY to my Niece and her husband and they are
not happy with the rear view while backing into the slip. It is a single station (flying bridge) boat. They
installed a couple of camera's but were still not happy. I convinced them to install an extra set of shift
and throttle controls in the aft cockpit for use in backing into the slip. It's a fairly simple fix for not a
lot of money. The 53 without the pilothouse bulk head is not too bad. My former 43 DC's were wonderful
because I had 360 deg visibility from the lower station and the boat behaved very well while docking.

Walt

 

[scottinsydney]

Hi Oscarvan,

Good luck with your hunting. We also came back to an older Hatteras time and time again

I steer downstairs in my crowded mooring bay. Once another moored boat is past the wheelhouse door I forget about it and move on to the next obstacle.

I can reverse side onto the T of a marina without issue and without thrusters. This does require me to look out the wheelhouse doors and also to view from the rear door if space to the next boat is limited. So you can do all this yourself.

It is possible to back up to a marina jetty, but only from the flybridge with my wife standing on the rear flybridge edge signalling the number of metres with her fingers. I would love to have a pair of rear controls, but would have only used them twice in four years.

A swing mooring is much easier than a berth and boat only needs yourself.

 

[oscarvan]

Thanks for the responses. I should have been more clear, this is not about docking or fixed objects. This is about being underway and faster moving traffic coming up the stern. I guess radar is indeed the answer.....

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

Thanks for the responses. I should have been more clear, this is not about docking or fixed objects. This is about being underway and faster moving traffic coming up the stern. I guess radar is indeed the answer.....

Radar is an answer, not THE answer. If there is a THE answer, it would be situational awareness. You are required to maintain a visual lookout and by any other means available. Radar is decidedly two-dimensional. It can't tell you if the boats coming up behind you are LE or are driven by reckless or impaired operators, for example. Often, boats behind you need to know you know they're there to gauge each other's intentions in tight situations. Even if you are in the right, you are not absolved of responsibility for what the other guy does--especially if you aren't fully aware of the building situation. You wouldn't drive a car without a rearview mirror. So maybe it'd be a good idea to take measures to be aware of your surroundings for your own protection.

Any navigational device's manual will tell you on page 1 to not depend solely on one input for navigation. The recent spate of US Navy collisions more than justifies the foregoing.

 

[Pascal]

The only time it matters is when you are about to change course then yes you should make sure nobody is overtaking you or about to overtake

Under way in a straight line you are fulfilling your obligation as stand on vessel by maintain course and speed so it s up to the overtaking vessel to stay clear

Radar helps but a stern cam is even better. At the lower helm you don’t even need a daylight monitor you can just use a basic computer monitor

 

[Freeebird]

Radar is an answer, not THE answer. If there is a THE answer, it would be situational awareness. You are required to maintain a visual lookout and by any other means available. Radar is decidedly two-dimensional. It can't tell you if the boats coming up behind you are LE or are driven by reckless or impaired operators, for example. Often, boats behind you need to know you know they're there to gauge each other's intentions in tight situations. Even if you are in the right, you are not absolved of responsibility for what the other guy does--especially if you aren't fully aware of the building situation. You wouldn't drive a car without a rearview mirror. So maybe it'd be a good idea to take measures to be aware of your surroundings for your own protection.

Any navigational device's manual will tell you on page 1 to not depend solely on one input for navigation. The recent spate of US Navy collisions more than justifies the foregoing.

Seriously?

I get your point, to a point, but... seriously?

What about running the boat singlehanded? It’s pretty unrealistic to think in terms of leaving the helm to look around to see what might be outside your field of vision. I would characterize that as unsafe operation. Radar and a VHF is more than sufficient.

 

[Freeebird]

One other cheap option for you is to install retractable, wide angle mirrors. You want to talk about limited visibility, I ran a 85’ houseboat for some folks who had a dinner party cruise last weekend, and visibility from the lower helm was extremely limited. It had stern cameras, but they were pretty much useless.

I’ve run others with such mirrors, and they were very helpful.

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

Seriously?

I get your point, to a point, but... seriously?

What about running the boat singlehanded? It’s pretty unrealistic to think in terms of leaving the helm to look around to see what might be outside your field of vision. I would characterize that as unsafe operation. Radar and a VHF is more than sufficient.

Well yes, seriously. Yes, you'd probably be ill advised to leave the helm of a planing boat in traffic. But, I imagine all of us have left the helm briefly to check the ER or grab a loose line or maybe a quick head call. I'd be pretty suspicious of someone claiming they never left the helm underway. Anyway, I thought we were talking about stepping a few feet over to the side deck when necessary. Doesn't seem overly unsafe to me assuming you've got the way ahead clear. You'd leave the helm and look before you changed course, right?

Your post about mirrors and VHF is well taken. All too many folks run without their VHF, particularly sailboats.

You may be in the right (responding to Pascal), but I have seen too much to just assume the other guy has a clue.

All good input.

 

[Pascal]

Mirrors. That’s fine on a houseboat

Actually in so fl you have to assume the other giuy doesn’t have a clue

Theblarger the boat the more limited the visibility aft and on the side is. You will have to step away from the helm for a few seconds to make sure there isn’t some idiot in a small boat too close to be seen before making a course change. No big deal. But I like having cameras pointed aft and toeach side of the stern on a large computer monitor

 

[Freeebird]

Your post about mirrors and VHF is well taken. All too many folks run without their VHF, particularly sailboats.

How fast are you cruising if you're worried about being overtaken by a sailboat?

 

[Freeebird]

Mirrors. That’s fine on a houseboat

Mirrors only work on houseboats... who knew?

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

How fast are you cruising if you're worried about being overtaken by a sailboat?

Maybe not as strange as you might think. I got rear ended by a sailboat while waiting on a bridge in 1994 or 5. He took off (as much as a sailboat can take off) and we had us a low speed pursuit going until a wildlife officer responded. Guy claimed he had the right-of-way because he was a sailboat and I didn't get out of his way at a closed draw. As I recall, that POS didn't even have sails. I got a ding in my platform, and he got a warning.

 

[jrbrein]

My rule #1 -

Trust no one.

Assume nothing.

And oh yes..."First do no harm"

Jon

 

[JD5652]

Oscar-

Good luck with your search!

Responding as a guy that came from running a sportfish boat for 15 years and now running a 58 LRC.... Underway running from lower helm there is limited visibility aft for sure. I tend to open the pilot house door and take two steps outside and take a gander... takes literally less than 5 seconds and running at 8-9 knots I do not find this a safety issue.

Actually the only time I find the lack of visibility an issue is backing into a slip … including my homeport. I haven't quite got that nailed down yet... but hoping it will come soon.... and I did install a camera in the back which does help me some.

 

[Freeebird]

Maybe not as strange as you might think. I got rear ended by a sailboat while waiting on a bridge in 1994 or 5. He took off (as much as a sailboat can take off) and we had us a low speed pursuit going until a wildlife officer responded. Guy claimed he had the right-of-way because he was a sailboat and I didn't get out of his way at a closed draw. As I recall, that POS didn't even have sails. I got a ding in my platform, and he got a warning.

LOL!!


That sounds about right from a sailboter. Right of way/stand on hardly means you can run over someone who is sitting still or moving slowly. Seeing him coming still wouldn't have given you many (if any) options to get out of his sights. I'll have to admit it was pretty sobering having one keeping pace me in the GOM when I was running my 58 on one engine. Yes, the sails were up, but I finally pulled away.

 

[Freeebird]

My rule #1 -

Trust no one.

Assume nothing.

And oh yes..."First do no harm"

Jon

So, is your #1 rule, trust no one or do no harm?

 

[Pascal]

How fast are you cruising if you're worried about being overtaken by a sailboat?

With foils, sailboats can easily hit 30, 40 kts and more

 

[Pascal]

Mirrors only work on houseboats... who knew?

I ll try to say this nicely... aesthetics don’t matter much on houseboats so a pair of of rusty mirrors salvaged from cousin bubba Lee’s old 18 wheeler woudl be an easy solution