LCD engine monitor/gauges

[Mike36c]

I know this has been discussed in the past but I couldn't find it with a search. I have mechanical Cummins and a few of my analog gauges are on the fritz. I'm looking to upgrade to an all-in-one flat screen system or possibly a MFD to monitor oil pressure, temps, volts, etc. My Floscans read RPM and I have stand alone alarms for oil and coolant so if the system crapped out I wouldn't be running totally blind. Has anyone looked into this recently?

 

[TopHattandTails]

I'm currently in process of getting quotes from Lauderdale Speedo and Chetco Digital about a solution. Chetco has a couple of screens (or you can use a NMEA2000 MFD - but I think a dedicated screen will be best). My issue is that I need to decide if I am switching out all OEM gauges and going with VDO in the Pilot House and solely electronic gauges on the flybridge (that will require dual senders mounted in parallel and not piggy backed). My big hang up is that I have a few other projects going on and really would like to reconfigure the entire fly bridge helm station (free up a lot of real estate by moving bilge switches, relabeling, etc.), but just don't have the time this winter to do that project and the others that I'm interested in doing. I'm pretty much sold on the chetco digital solution and Lauderdale Speedo has all of the senders / gauges that might want for redundancy.

 

[DeeRow]

...I'm looking to upgrade to an all-in-one flat screen system or possibly a MFD to monitor oil pressure, temps, volts, etc. My Floscans read RPM and I have stand alone alarms for oil and coolant so if the system crapped out I wouldn't be running totally blind. Has anyone looked into this recently?

There are two parts to this. One is converting the data to NMEA 2000 so that it can be displayed on an MFD. The other part is displaying it. Assuming that your analogue senders are in working order, you can use a product like this http://www.nolandeng.com/downloads/RS11_1pg_72010.pdf to convert the data to NMEA 2000. There are others on the market, but this is the least expensive at $240. The biggest issue with this is that you need to calibrate the analogue output to match you current gauges. This is easy to do when you have working gauges. If you don't have working gauges, then mechanical gauges can be used to map the sending unit output to the actual value.

Most modern MFD's will display NMEA 2000 data that is on the data bus. If you want a dedicated display, most marine electronic manufactures make a small display specifically for this type of data for around $500. Maretron has a display that allows you to configure alarm points on the data. It is more expensive at around $800.

I know someone how used the Noland Engineering RS11 to get engine data to display on a Garmin MFD in a tower and they are happy with it. It was installed by RJ Marine in Palm City, FL.

 

[ThirdHatt]

There are two parts to this. One is converting the data to NMEA 2000 so that it can be displayed on an MFD. The other part is displaying it. Assuming that your analogue senders are in working order, you can use a product like this http://www.nolandeng.com/downloads/RS11_1pg_72010.pdf to convert the data to NMEA 2000. There are others on the market, but this is the least expensive at $240. The biggest issue with this is that you need to calibrate the analogue output to match you current gauges. This is easy to do when you have working gauges. If you don't have working gauges, then mechanical gauges can be used to map the sending unit output to the actual value.

Most modern MFD's will display NMEA 2000 data that is on the data bus. If you want a dedicated display, most marine electronic manufactures make a small display specifically for this type of data for around $500. Maretron has a display that allows you to configure alarm points on the data. It is more expensive at around $800.

I know someone how used the Noland Engineering RS11 to get engine data to display on a Garmin MFD in a tower and they are happy with it. It was installed by RJ Marine in Palm City, FL.

DeeRow wins the prize! You just described the NMEA2000 system that I am in the process of installing on my boat this winter. I am running the Noland RS11 to convert tach, oil pressure and water temp from both mains to NMEA2k. I am also using the Materton fluid level adapters to monitor fluid levels in all tanks with alarms on the NMEA2K network as well. To display the info I am using two of the Maretron displays (one at the chart table and the other in the master) as well as the Garmin 5212. These NMEA2K systems are so easy to use and install I think it is the best thing for the DIY since sliced bread!

 

[Vincentc]

Encouraging to hear that I have company with non functioning OEM gauges. I replaced the FB tachs with Aetna digitals and they are working fine. I installed direct oil pressure and water pressure guages in the saloon; however, they are not very convenient to check.
The water, engine oil and gear oil gauges at the helm, FB and saloon disagree with each other, and I am considering some kind of replacement for the helm and fb gauges. I have Garmin 4000 series plotters and the option of electronic engine read outs to the plotters sounds interesting.

Hope you will continue to report on your efforts.

 

[ThirdHatt]

Encouraging to hear that I have company with non functioning OEM gauges. I replaced the FB tachs with Aetna digitals and they are working fine. I installed direct oil pressure and water pressure guages in the saloon; however, they are not very convenient to check.
The water, engine oil and gear oil gauges at the helm, FB and saloon disagree with each other, and I am considering some kind of replacement for the helm and fb gauges. I have Garmin 4000 series plotters and the option of electronic engine read outs to the plotters sounds interesting.

Hope you will continue to report on your efforts.

Vincent, you are half way there already. Just get the RS11 from Noland Engineering, hook up the tach from each main engine and choose two any other inputs per engine (I chose oil pressure and water temp). Then just run the one NMEA2K backbone cable from the RS11 to your 4000 series Garmin. Then it is just a matter of adjusting the settings so that the RS11 knows what to send and the Garmin knows what to look for. No more replacing guages and running multiples of wires, etc.

 

[krush]

Cool stuff. Simple, effective, and nice price.

http://www.nolandeng.com/catalog/

 

[DeeRow]

DeeRow wins the prize! ...

Cool! What did I win?

 

[Mike36c]

Thanks everyone! I'm talking to a friend in Stuart about installing new senders or converting data from existing senders to display info on my C120. I'll post the findings.

 

[Mike36c]

Spoke with the Noland folks yesterday, here's the latest: The RS11 can send data for two engines (two tachs and four analog) so along with tachs you get oil pressure and water temp for each engine. The initial user set-up is done with a pc and the analog ports can be configured to send just about anything. I want more than 4 analog inputs so I'm going with 2 RS11's, then I can monitor gear pressure and boost also. To display this info I found a used Raymarine C70 in addition to my C120, the RS11 will feed both via one cable. I'll post pics once up and running.
For those who want to wait Noland is coming out with a single unit designed specifically for two engine applications which will include multiple analog ports and alarms, should be released this summer.

 

[DeeRow]

...To display this info I found a used Raymarine C70 in addition to my C120, the RS11 will feed both via one cable...

Have you talked to Raymarine about using NMEA 2K? I believe that you will need to build a SeaTalk NG bus and connect the NMEA 2K data into it with special cable from Raymarine. SeaTalk NG has different cables for backbone and drop cables. Some of the SeaTalk NG cables have 6 wires some have 5 wires. NMEA 2K has 5 wires. I don't believe that Raymarine makes a cable to connect a Seatalk NG drop cable to a NMEA 2K backbone. Its been awhile since I looked at it, so it could have changed or my recollection could be wrong.

 

[Boatsb]

I think you need a seatalk 2 to nmea 200 adapter cable. they are compatible but different connectors.

 

[Mike36c]

UPDATE: After another discussion with Noland here's what I discovered. The RS11 taps into an existing gauge signal then converts it to NEMA2K, the analog gauge must remain in the loop for the RS11 to work. We can't simply hook the RS11 directly to an analog sender. Soon to come (month or so)is a unit that will allow a direct analog sender connection, I'm going to wait till then so I can eliminate my whole gauge/wiring mess and replace it with one cable to the bridge. The folks at Noland were VERY helpful. More to come...

 

[DeeRow]

I think you need a seatalk 2 to nmea 200 adapter cable. they are compatible but different connectors.

Here is a link to the Raymarine SeaTalk NG manual, http://www.raymarine.com/GetFile.aspx?fileId=400&categoryId=3 It looks like you'll need the "DeviceNet male adaptor cable Part number: A06046" on the top of page 4. The manual doesn't elaborate what type of NMEA 2000 connector is on this cable (micro, mini, or mid). Check with Noland and Raymarine to be sure that they will connect and, if not, what kind of adapters you will need. Worse case you can splice the wires.

 

[ThirdHatt]

UPDATE: After another discussion with Noland here's what I discovered. The RS11 taps into an existing gauge signal then converts it to NEMA2K, the analog gauge must remain in the loop for the RS11 to work. We can't simply hook the RS11 directly to an analog sender. Soon to come (month or so)is a unit that will allow a direct analog sender connection, I'm going to wait till then so I can eliminate my whole gauge/wiring mess and replace it with one cable to the bridge. The folks at Noland were VERY helpful. More to come...

I am wiring my RS11 directly to the analog senders so I just spoke with the engineer at NoLand to clarify. You can indeed connect directly to an analog sender IF it has power, so that the RS11 can read the two voltages that it needs: one at a known value (say, 50psi for oil pressure confirmed on a mechanical guage) and the other with 0psi (engine off). Those are the two values that the RS11 needs to know so that it can convert the voltages to a pressure reading to be sent on the N2K network. The RS11 just requires power at the sending unit, because if the guage were in the loop the power would be there.

As far as alarms go, you may not need the NoLand product to do that for you because you can set whatever alarms you wish on your N2K display. I am not sure about Raymarine, but I know that you can set alarms through the software on the Maretron and the Garmin.

 

[Mike36c]

Byron, talk to Kevin @ Noland, I got a different story this afternoon.

 

[ThirdHatt]

Byron, talk to Kevin @ Noland, I got a different story this afternoon.

Mike, Kevin is exactly who I spoke with this afternoon after reading your post and he is the one who explained to me the that the RS11 should work fine without guages if and only if the sending unit has voltage. If I understood what he told me, the RS11 only needs to be able to read voltage to work so it makes sense that the RS11 doesn't care if it reads the voltage at a guage or at a sending unit so long as voltage is present.

My RS11 hookup situation is unique in that in 2005 the previous owner of my boat had a complete NMEA0183-based system (www.ftnav.com) installed to monitor engine parameters, generator parameters, alarms, tank levels, etc, etc at an actual cost of $40k(!) including the software, licenses, wiring and installation. At that time all analog guages were removed from the dash when they installed the triple monitor Nobeltec Glass Bridge System for a nice, clean look at the helm. That is fine and dandy, but now all my engine data is relying on a Windows based machine, and we all know what Windows likes to do just at the wrong time-- CRASH! This is why I am installing a completely separate, redundant NMEA2000 system coupled to a Garmin touchscreen supplimented with Maretron displays. I plan to have basic engine data (rpm/oil pressure/water temp) from the existing sending units which are already powered by the NMEA0183 system to the new NMEA2000 backbone.

I sure hope it works out as planned because I would really like a second backup way to view engine parameters and this little $230 box from NoLand sure seems like the ticket! If not, oh well. You win some, you lose some. Considering what the previous owner spent to get this same info on a display, I will be a bit amazed myself if/when I get it working!

 

[krush]

Most senders are just variable resistors. Something has to supply the current to them. This is usually the gauge.

The little units ya'll are talking about are merely input devices that sense voltage or current. So, like the engineers done said, something has to energize the circuit.

Edit: looked at the ftnav site...looks PLC based with winDoze interfaces. meh

 

[ThirdHatt]

Most senders are just variable resistors. Something has to supply the current to them. This is usually the gauge.

The little units ya'll are talking about are merely input devices that sense voltage or current. So, like the engineers done said, something has to energize the circuit.

Edit: looked at the ftnav site...looks PLC based with winDoze interfaces. meh

Krush, as usual you are absolutely correct sir. The FTNav system is PLC based and has actually been quite accurate and very reliable in itself since it was installed. Heck, from what I am told this was apparently THE cutting-edge high end system back in 2005. I must say that even today as several software companies have recently designed and released nearly identical software that runs on the NMEA2000 network (available for a small fraction what this system originally cost), this system still does everything that the new N2K systems do albeit with just a bit slower reaction times from the limitations within the confines of the NMEA0183 protocol.

It's just the Windows envoronment that I do not trust as my sole means for engine data in the pilothouse and on the flybridge. The only issues that the previous owner had were with the old Nav computer itself. Luckily, just before I bought the boat he had a new Apex Marine Computer (www.marinecomp.com/apex.htm) built for the boat with shock mounted dual hard drives so that if one hard drive crashes, the other one just takes over and continues navigating, etc. My pilothouse dash is actually still pictured on that site at www.marinecomp.com/index.html. I am about to change out both of those 7200rpm hard drives next week for the new second generation Intel XM-25 solid sate drives to eliminate all moving parts in the hard drives further improving the performance, reliability and overall stability of the system.

Getting back on topic, as was stated the sensors need to get voltage from somewhere, anywhere and while that is usually a guage apparently there is no requirement that the power has to come from a guage. My boat has no guages at all, just the data being displayed via the FTNav software so in my case the voltage is obviously there at the sending units to get the current readings and it is probably coming directly from the PLC if I had to guess. I do not know and honestly I do not care just as long as voltage is there for the NoLand RS11 to read from. As I am typing this I realize one thing that could be an issue for my setup is if it is the PLC that supplies the sending units with power, does the software have to be up and running on the Windows-based machine for the sensors to have voltage, or are they powered as long as the PLC has power (ignition-on). If the FTNav software has to be up and running for the sensors to have power, the NoLand RS11 would lose power if the Windows machine did crash leaving my backup system down for the count and therefore useless as a backup. I will call my FTNav contact and check with him.

 

[Boatsb]

Byron the gages were powered by the key switch and then powered the senders. You probably need to power the senders similarly from the switch. I would check to see if you need a power regulator or resistor in the line.