Larger rudders for 53MY

[SKYCHENEY]

I have seen only one 53MY where they replaced the rudders with slightly larger surface area rudders. I never talked to the owner to see if/how much this helped.

Many have complained about the steerage in a following sea and I have to agree that the rudders seem small for a boat of this size. Has anyone here up-sized rudders? If so, what differences did you notice?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Okay. I guess that answers my question.

There are a couple of us that may just have some made. I'm not sure what size was used on the 53 that I saw a few years ago, but we are thinking an increase in surface area of about 20% would make a big difference without overly stressing the associated steering components. I'm told that the drawings have already been completed. Will update if this actually all happens.

 

[MarioG]

Sky i too have been mulling this idea of larger rudders to aid is low speed steering. But i have been also thinking about alternative steering capabilities like a manual steering servo of a good autopilot system. I've seen these systems and I'm sure you have too. It's essentially a small hydraulic joystick control that sits horizontal on the helm that manually controls steering through the autopilot pump. i know bigger yachts use them. I'm thinking that the all in cost associated with redesigning and installing new modified rudders would be similar to a newer advanced autopilot with this function.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Our 58 Bertram did have some low speed problems at times. The back and bottom edges were flat and near square.The metal worker at Huckins just welded on some 3" plates that helped a lot.
Over 12 years now, still solid.

I usually never touch the steering wheel while under way.
I steer with the rotating knob on our AP. One click is one degree magnetic.
Let the AP pump do the work.

Jog lever controllers as you mentioned (FU & NFU) are expensive.
I had thought about one but decided not, the steering knob on my AP does a fine job in Follow Up or Non Follow UP (FU or NFU) just fine.

Still with all our mods, I still have to hand steer the boat with the big ole wheel, coming in an inlet with following swells on our stern.

 

[MarioG]

I found some literature on the Jog Lever AP system. It may or may not help in more low speed steering control. but just in case here it is..

https://www.furunousa.com/-/media/s...ow-up_vs._non_follow-up_lever_controller.pdfe

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Rudders are being fabricated. We went with 35% more surface area. Will report back once they are installed and tested.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Sky, are you using a local fabricator for those?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Sky, are you using a local fabricator for those?

Yes, Marine Machining in Clinton Twp, Michigan. Same people who fabricated my struts, shafts, and shaft couplings.

 

[Cricket]

Think you will be shocked by how much better the boat will handle. We increased the rudder size probably by 30-35% before adding the power steering, biggest difference was in a following sea where we could actually be in control instead of the ocean. During the CAT repower added the power steering which is amazing, would never have a boat without it.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Think you will be shocked by how much better the boat will handle. We increased the rudder size probably by 30-35% before adding the power steering, biggest difference was in a following sea where we could actually be in control instead of the ocean. During the CAT repower added the power steering which is amazing, would never have a boat without it.

I'm thinking the power steering may be next. You can't buy the hynautic cylinder anymore and the last time I put seals in this one, I had to do it twice to stop the leaks. I don't see or feel any obvious scarring on the ram, but if it starts leaking again, it's getting replaced.

 

[motoryacht lover]

Does it matter where on the rudder you add metal? In other words do you make it longer top to bottom or wider front to back or both? Seems like making the rudders bigger will create more force for the steering to overcome. Do you have to concern yourself with steering modifications to deal with the larger rudder? I believe larger rudders vastly improved the handling of the Bertram 31 and also heard larger rudders helped with one of the post models that tended to get squirrely in following seas.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I'm not the engineer on this project just the recipient of someone else's work. But the guy who drew this up is benefiting from the discount he received for the extra quantity being built due to my participation in the deal.

Basically, they added 3" to the trailing edge and 3" to the bottom edge. I'm sure that adds extra force to all of the steering components, but we all know that Hatteras over-engineered everything so I'm not too concerned. And I know of another 53 that this was done to and never heard of any problems.

 

[bostonhatteras]

The redesign is interesting. The portion of rudder before the pivot point assists by reducing the force needed to turn the rudder against the force of the oncoming sea. sort of like free power steering. I wonder if the guy just takes percentages of each area before and after the pivot and adds a like percentage to each?

 

[warrenw]

Sky,

What are the dimensions of the original rudders?

I'm not the engineer on this project just the recipient of someone else's work. But the guy who drew this up is benefiting from the discount he received for the extra quantity being built due to my participation in the deal.

Basically, they added 3" to the trailing edge and 3" to the bottom edge. I'm sure that adds extra force to all of the steering components, but we all know that Hatteras over-engineered everything so I'm not too concerned. And I know of another 53 that this was done to and never heard of any problems.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Sky,

What are the dimensions of the original rudders?

Small.

The real answer is "I don't know". I'll measure them next time I'm at the boat.

 

[bostonhatteras]

My boat had no means of bonding the rudders when I purchased her. This was my solution. Maybe it helps you, maybe not, just throwing it out there.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

My boat had no means of bonding the rudders when I purchased her. This was my solution. Maybe it helps you, maybe not, just throwing it out there.

Looks like a great idea. Thank you. Right now my bonding wire is connected to the bolt that tightens the clamping fitting just below where your wire is.

 

[Captain Ralph]

My boat had no means of bonding the rudders when I purchased her. This was my solution. Maybe it helps you, maybe not, just throwing it out there.

One of the nicest and driest install I have seen in a while.

 

[cww]

I'm thinking the power steering may be next. You can't buy the hynautic cylinder anymore and the last time I put seals in this one, I had to do it twice to stop the leaks. I don't see or feel any obvious scarring on the ram, but if it starts leaking again, it's getting replaced.

I ran into that problem, the steering cylinder is an obsolete part number that’s been discontinued. They do make a very very similar one that’s the right size with the correct amount of travel, but the mounting points were different. We bedded in new pads and mounted the new one up so now I’m future proof until hynautic discontinues that one too. I had mine rebuilt but it sprung another leak a month later at which point I insisted on a new one.