Is Tinned wire a must?

[Traveler 45C]

I need a little straightening out here.

As long as the wire ends are sealed, what difference does it make using tinned wire or not? I realize that the Ancor wire is marine grade, has more strands than regular wire, and has heavier insulation, but is it a must?

 

[Genesis]

Yes.

Salt air will wick into the cable through any means possible. Non-tinned will turn to a hard mess over time and have NO internal integrity at all.

Someone did my bonding system at some point in the past with non-tinned wire. You should have seen what I pulled out of the bilge when I rewired it with the CORRECT wire.

Get the Ancor. I know I owe you a price on that anchor, but if you need a decent on the wire tell me what you need in terms of spools and such and I'll get you a number on that too.

 

[MikeP]

Further to support the need for tinned wire - on my last boat I couldn't get the 12V refrigerator circuit to work. Everything looked OK but there was no voltage at the fridge end. I finally pulled the entire wire and found that in the middle of the run there was a small pinhole in the insulation. For about a foot in either direction the non-tinned copper wire was just a black/green hard substance that did not conduct electricity. From the outside it looked perfectly normal.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Absolutely you should use tinned wire. If you don't you'll get to do the job twice. The additional cost is more than worth it. I have never had a problem with any marine wiring work I did with Ancor cable.

 

[Traveler 45C]

I’m good on wire right now, thanks.

As long as the wires are sealed I can’t see the difference. But, because there on a boat, the wires won’t remain sealed forever. And when compromised, the tinned wire being more corrosion resistant will last longer and makes sense as the better choice.

Thanks guys.

 

[spartonboat1]

Re: Is Tinned wire a must?/Yes!

Ditto about the corrosion resistance. Also, some non-Ancor insulation could very well not be fully imprevious to water molecule transmission.

Also, you mentioned the strand count, i.e. some brand wires have fewer strands, esp. the single strand household wiring (a no-no on a boat). The fewer the strands the greater the chance of work-hardening of the wire, due to the constant presence of vibration on a boat in operation. The work-hardening could lead to failure of the wire strands, heat build-up (fire!), etc. all not good.

Also, I go overboard, as it were, and use eyelets on the ends, rather than split spade ends, in case the nut falls off or loosens, which I have had happen. The eyelet will tend to stay in place.

My 2 cents...p.s. this type of post will for sure get some responses...

 

[Genesis]

Closed eye, double-crimp connectors are standard on Hatteras wiring.

I refuse to use anything less than what the boat deserves.....

 

[Jackman]

Don't cheat your boat and self on this. All it takes ia a poor connection and you could corrode running gear down to nothing quicker than you think. Use the tinned wire and the high quality connectors mentioned. I just redid my entire Hat...while not as large as yours I did it the way it should be done. I even replaced the copper strapping that was originally there because it was shot.

 

[spartonboat1]

Re: Is Tinned wire a must?/Crimp Count?

Re: Crimping the connectors...I had a triple ABYC certified tech suggest that they (his shop) only did a single crimp per connector. However, up to that time I had always done a double crimp, plus I notice a mention of a double crimp. Is there an ABYC std on this, or does some know which is indicates 1x or 2x crimp? thx...

 

[MikeP]

As I recall - and I may not - the only requirement I've heard for a crimp connection is the weight the connection can bear. For some reason, I think it is 6 pounds. I have never heard of any requirement for x number of crimps.

The best tool is a ratcheting crimp connector tool - Ancor makes them - it works superbly and is an excellent example of how much better (and more expensive) good tools are than cheap tools.

 

[captddis]

The # of crimps depends on the connector. The cheap connectors only have room for 1 crimp on the barrel. The better terminals have a longer barrel that can be crimped onto the strands and below that another crimp onto the jacket of the wire. The biggest cause of failure is the use of the wrong size terminal for the gauge of wire being used.
As far as tinned wire , I would never use anything else. There are still a lot of boats with some big names still using plain copper wire. You might be suprised. Dave

 

[jim rosenthal]

There was a very good article on this within the past year or so in Passagemaker. One of the things they mentioned was using a copper paste called KoprShield on the wire end before crimping the terminal on. Another was using heat shrink tubing. I do both wherever possible.
It is very difficult to seal these ends, even with KoprShield and heat shrink tubing. Corrosive salt air will work its' way in there sooner or later, which is why on older boats you end up with all these powdery green terminals way inside the boat where you didn't get liquid water. In the areas of the boat that DO get wet, the problem is worse. I think it might be worse on the coasts where the water is salt or brackish.
The strain spec is, I think, fifteen pounds. Ancor and ABYC have a lot of this in their literature. It's interesting: much of marine wiring is performed when you're crammed into a console or pretzeled in someplace that's hard to get to. Most of the boats here are larger than mine; okay, they have more wiring to service but there's more room to do it. As the years have gone by and I've gotten thicker and less bendable, my appetite for squeezing in to service wiring and plumbing has diminished. So I'm trying not to do this stuff over too many times if I can help it.
All of this adds up to trying to get the most longevity of service out of the wiring I do put in, and the best reliability. I haven't had any difficulty with Ancor wiring or tools, although other companies make marine cable that is just as good. (Oceana here sells a generic brand of tinned cable in some sizes that looks identical to Ancor and I've used that a few times.) The Ancor tools and cable ends are first-class. Obviously they have this stuff made up for them, but their specs are high-end and their products are reliable. Also their catalog is readable and you can find what you need.
One other thing: when my boat was built, Hatteras roughed in extra circuits to the flybridge console in case they were ever needed. I do this when I am pulling wiring through in difficult areas; either I use cable with more strands than I need, or I pull extra cables through and just shrink-wrap the ends, against the time that I may need them. Sometimes I end up using them, sometimes not, but it saves time later on.

 

[CharlieJ]

I can add little to this discussion except pertinent values from the ABYC Standards Section E-11; Table XVI, "Tensile Test Standards for Connectors":

AWG Size//Tensile Force (pounds)
18//10
16//15
14//30
12//35
10//40
8//45
6//50
4//70
2//90
1//100
0//125
00//150
000//175
0000//225

 

[Trojan]

What is wrong with a light crimpping and solder. Thats what I use. An over crimpped fitting isn't worth a damn eather. Bill

 

[first230sl]

Although soldering makes a wonderful electrical connection, what worries me is the potential for over-driving that circuit, which could heat the wire, which in turn could melt the solder. If you combine that with only a light crimp, one might get a failure where a solid crimp would not fail.

Granted, if you are over-driving the circult to the point where the solder melts, you have big problems anyhow. But one just never knows when that extra few minutes of circuit integrity might come in useful.

Best regards - Murray

What is wrong with a light crimpping and solder. Thats what I use. An over crimpped fitting isn't worth a damn eather. Bill

 

[Trojan]

When you over crimp wires you fracture some of the strands . Some can even be loose in the terminal after crimping. Even worse if you just happen to grab the wrong size.The compromizing of the joint makes it weak to vibration and corrision. If you melt the solder from too much current. What do you think will happen to the insulation covering. Most crimps only contact a portion of the wire. Solder, contacts the entire joint. Crimp the joint to make a good contact and a tight fit, then solder. No corrosion in the joint,100% contact,vibration safe.I keep a soldering gun always on the boat. Stated somewere else, use lots of wire ties.They help stop the flexing of the wire and chafing the inside and outside the insulation. Bill