Insurance - Good News!

[jcrlaw]

I received my insurance renewal notice yesterday (prayed, opened and paid it!) and, much to my great surprise, the increase was minimal. I own a 1980 58'YF and am insured for full purchase price value, no exclusions, boating in the gulf, the US east coast and The Bahamas. The boat is kept behind our house on the Gulf of Mexico. My deductible is 4% and my new premium was $4700.00, including my tender (13' Whaler). Maybe the following information will be helpful to some of you. The company is Sea-Safe, a division of Geico (so my agent told me), and their number is 800-225-6560. I also have my two small boats insured with them through a division called Ski-Safe. The office is located at One Hollow Lane, Lake Success, NY 11042. Hope this is a benefit to some body.

 

[Angela]

Thanks for the post - and that is good news! I'll be contacting your source since I've received my non-renewal just four months after the policy's inception which means I'll be needing new insurance when March rolls around. I have a 1980 58MY in Miami and my premium currently is $7,500. Your premium looks promising to me!

Ang

 

[SeaEric]

I used to be with Ski Safe/Sea Safe. I customer of mine in the insurance field suggested that I read carefully that policy. From what I read it was an ACV policy, Actual Cash Value as opposed to Agreed Value. There is a critcal difference. Read carefully and choose accordingly. If the deal is too good to be true....well you know the rest.

 

[Passages]

Sorry for sounding ignorant but how does ACV differ from Agreed Value?

 

[jcrlaw]

Passages: The difference in the policies (simple put) is that, in the event the boat is a total loss, the agreed value policy will pay you the amount agreed upon and stated on the declaration page. An actual cash value policy will essentially have an independent adjuster/appraiser/surveyor inspect your damaged vessel, and through a process of market research, personal judgment, etc., determine the amount you will receive.

SeaEric: You are correct in the difference in the types of policies. Being an attorney, I both asked and read for myself. My policy is an agreed value policy, which is why I mentioned in my post that the agreed amount was my purchase price (despite the fact that the survey value was higher, I'm not interest in playing games and over insuring). My neighbor, and good friend, was also insured with Sea-Safe prior to Wilma. His Carver was destroyed and he was paid $165,000 agreed value for a boat which was for sale (on the open market) for considerably less. He had his check in two weeks. Although I have never had a claim in 31 years of boating, I feel comfortable with the company and the policy. Again, I hope it helps one of you.

 

[ThirdHatt]

jcrlaw, I cannot thank you enough for the reference. I thought that I had contacted everyone in the yacht insurance business by now, but apparently not. I will contact them Monday morning. I am being non-renewed by NMU (as is everyone on the gulf coast) and I have been searching high and low (read U.S. and Overseas) for coverage and even the overseas coverage is more than double what I was paying. I have placed many, many calls and filled out tons of yacht insurance apps, and sent my current survey (1yr old this week) to literally well over a dozen different agents desperately trying to get someone to understand that I am a low risk. I proved it during Katrina with zero damage, and I will only call them once a year to find out how much more money to send them.

I do have a bit of an issue with your "over-insuring" comment with respect to my particular situation. After searching tenaciously for many years, I honestly made the deal of a lifetime when I bought my 58YF and bought her for about 1/3 of the actual value of the boat (estate/distress sale, etc, etc). I have invested a good bit since then, but still have less than half the fair market value invested. Now, should I be penalized for making an incredible deal and not be able to insure it in a manner to be able to replace it with a similar vessel if (God forbid) there were a catastrophe and I lost her? I think not. I do not wish to play games either,and I would do just about anything to save this--my dream boat but honestly I could not afford to double my current investment to replace her, so I see no reason if I am willing to pay the premium that I should not be insured for fair market value or something close to the survey amount. What if someone inherits a boat or something like that? Those people should be able to insure for a fair market value as well, even they have no real money invested. That is what insurance is for, IMHO. This obviously assumes that people are honest and not trying to commit insurance fraud to profit illegally on a claim. That is why a credit check and other personal info should be required by the insurer to protect themselves in such instances.

I was ready to go with Boat U.S. for nearly triple what I paid last year figuring if I was going to bend over anyway, I may as well have some real good insurance. Interestingly, they want a copy of the sales contract from back when I bought the boat and I fear that they may not see things quite the way I do. I can understand, considering all the boats that they have gotten stuck with over the last couple of seasons by absentee owners that couldn't or wouldn't make proper storm preparations or boats that were "for sale" for some time before the storms or other such unscrupulous owner neglect.

I BELIEVE that I may have found the yacht insurance equivalent of the Holy Grail, with what seems to be excellent coverage by an excellent company for a reasonable premium. I am not at liberty to discuss this until I have documents in my posession comfirming that they will cover me, but I will keep this board posted. I do know that this particular company stopped writing boats in Florida and I am surprised that they are seemingly offering to cover me here in Louisiana. My NMU policy expires in 10 days and there will be a named storm in the gulf on Monday by the way it looks now so who knows how this will go. I wish I renewed in winter time, when the underwriters and agents are hungry for cash with no storms on their mind!

 

[jcrlaw]

ThirdHatt: Hope it all works out in your best interest. Let me clarify my comment. First, my deal was not like yours. I paid the FMV for my boat; however, the hull survey came back 100k higher. The insurance carrier asked if I wanted to use the survey number or the purchase price and I simply decided on the purchase price. Interestingly, this year they asked me if I had any receipts to provide to raise the agreed value as they are aware I have only owned this boat one year. Truthfully everything I have done this past year was necessary maintenance and nothing of "insurable" value. Again, hope you get good news.

 

[ThirdHatt]

jcrlaw, Thank you for your support. I have invested in several "insurable" upgrades since I purchased the boat such as a new 16kw gesnet, newer dinghy, new electronics, etc but I am still at around 50% of FMV. I realize that I am in a somewhat unusual position due to the sizeable difference between what I actually have invested and the FMV and/or survey values. I had not really even thought about this as a potential issue until Boat US asked for a copy of my sales contract from over a year ago as a requirement to bind coverage. They are probably inquiring just to protect themselves because they have had to take some bad licks over the past couple of seasons. Although I have not inquired about this situation with their underwriters due to a much better quote coming in since, it would not surprise me if they would not be inclined to insure someone in a position similar to mine for FMV because of the possibility of an insured having less than honorable intentions.

I look forward to speaking with SeaSafe on Monday.

 

[Angela]

I ran into the same scenario time, after time, after time. My boat surveyed at $150K more than the purchase price and frankly, I could not buy this boat in this condition again for what I paid for it. Honestly, I've seen older, project 58MY sell for what I paid. I fell into one of those situations where her owner had unexpectely passed away.

When trying to rationalize the situation to insurance folks, I even used the "what if" I bought the boat for $50,000 and she surveyed at $300,000, and then she was damaged in a storm to the extent of $60,000, and you know what I was told????? "We will only write the policy for the purchase price and if you have damages of more than $50,000 (the purchase price), then we will pay you the $50,000 and take the boat. Now, THAT is total horsecrap!

On my last go-round I intentionally left the purchase price blank and handed them the survey. I avoided the "how much did you pay for the boat" question. After the policy was paid for and I had an agreed policy for survey value, I filled in that blank. I am hoping to avoid that scenario again when I start shopping for insurance next year - I've all ready been told I'm a non-renewal, not for avoid the purchase price issue, but because after 4 months, the insurer had still not issued the policy, yet they had my annual premium in full. I had to press the issue with the threat of a complaint with the insurance commissioner and/or lawsuit in order to get the policy issued. Got it now, though, along with a non-renewal notice. My lawyer who helped press the issue to make the insurer behave got non-renewed too - that's just wrong!

So, JCRLaw, your post is indeed good news to me, as well as many others, I'm sure. Thanks for the tip. I'll be inquring about Sea-Safe when the time comes, probably January. I hope they don't have a "No Florida policies" restriction. I've already sent an email to my agent about it.

Ang

 

[SKYCHENEY]

The day I bought my boat I picked up an agreed value policy for more than what I paid for the boat. They just asked, How much do you want to insure it for?. I picked a number that I thought was reasonable to be able to find another boat and bring it up the the condition of my current one and they had no problem with it. The company: Auto Owners.

 

[ThirdHatt]

Sky, that is precisely what I was referring to. We buy insurance so that if something horrible happens, it will enable us to replace our property with something comparable without coming out of pocket to do so. This is why we come out of pocket annually, for this security. Most all boat transactions are completed under survey value, and I would suggest that if an owner so desires he should be able to insure for survey value to cover his replacement cost completely. Merely insuring for what you bought the boat for does not take into account the time, travel expenses, surveying costs, etc. that are all a part of researching and purchasing a boat. If an accredited surveyor (professional, independent opinion) certifies that a boat is worth a specific amount and an owner is willing to pay the premium, he should be able to insure for that amount.

 

[Freebird]

I don't know if it is because I show a home port of Kingston, TN, but I'm carrying a $250,000 hull value policy with 1 million liability and a $250 deductible (I'll up that when I get it home, figured it would come in handy until then) and paying $2,500.00 a year with State Farm. This policy covers me while in coastal waters, even the Bahamas and Abacos. Might want to check into this guys.

 

[ThirdHatt]

Now THAT is interesting...my State Farm agent who has had my home and personal articles policy (with no claims) for over a decade called me back and said that it came to $6,000/yr for only $100,000 coverage, and $250,000 coverage would be somehwere near $15,000/yr! WOW! He even went so far as to say that his personal boat that he keeps in FL is covered by Zurich and he is NOT looking forward to his renewal! So, how much are slips going for in Tennessee??

 

[Trojan]

I have State Farm for my home ,farm, cars, motorcycles and jet ski. But they would not insure my 1973/43DC It was to old. BUT they would insure my 1973/32 Trojan. What kind of crap is that?


BILL

 

[Freebird]

Now THAT is interesting...my State Farm agent who has had my home and personal articles policy (with no claims) for over a decade called me back and said that it came to $6,000/yr for only $100,000 coverage, and $250,000 coverage would be somehwere near $15,000/yr! WOW! He even went so far as to say that his personal boat that he keeps in FL is covered by Zurich and he is NOT looking forward to his renewal! So, how much are slips going for in Tennessee??

I'm paying $240 a month for a 50 x 16 for my 41DC, and a 70 x 20 for my 58TC will run about $375.00 (both covered). As for State Farm, must be a Tennessee thing (damn we're lookin' good ain't we?) I have several boat, auto, and home policies with State Farm, but I doubt the discounts make up the difference in what you are being quoted. My suggestion, move up here, get your insurance, and "visit" Louisiana. We're still acceptin' membership applications at BUBBA (see thread #61, NY Bashing by yours truly). Ya'll come see us, ya' hear?

 

[Freebird]

I have State Farm for my home ,farm, cars, motorcycles and jet ski. But they would not insure my 1973/43DC It was to old. BUT they would insure my 1973/32 Trojan. What kind of crap is that?


BILL

No problems insuring my '65 with them. I'm carrying $75,000 (underinsured) for the hull with a $1,000 deductible, $300k liabilty, and am paying around $700.00. No surveys no b.s. no nuthin'. I used MUA for years, and they were actually a little cheaper than State Farm. However, they required a survey before they would insure. The cost of the survey outweighed the savings. Have used State Farm for over 25 years on everything. No problems. You boys are just geographically challenged!

 

[Freebird]

One funny note re: State Farm. When I went into my agent's office to get a new policy for my 58TC, the girl who took the info asked if it had a trailer . I told her yes, and to go ahead and figure insurance costs on my Peterbilt and two escort vehicles while she was at it!

 

[Kathy L]

jcrlaw, Read your thread last nite, and got excited. Just called Sea Safe
to get a quote on my 36 ft with East Coast and Bahamas Coverage.
After giving him details about my experience and the boat, he said that his
quote will exclude windstorm damage - is that a problem? Well, hello, I'm
in South Florida.
John

 

[ThirdHatt]

Kathy L, You are so right! I sent in my app this morning to Ski-Safe with my survey and just got a call back. They said they need a current survey (mine is dated 8-2-05) so 1yr and 5 days old now, so I told them I consider that current enough. He then went on to tell me that his deductible is 10% ($25,000 on a $250k policy ) and there would be NO windstorm coverage! He is working up the quote and will call me back, but unless it is amazingly inexpensive I can't imagine considering them at all.

 

[Freebird]

Sounds like with the rates you guys are paying, self-insuring might be the way to go if the boat's free and clear. If there is a lien, I can't imagine a lienholder allowing you to carry insurance that wouldn't cover wind damage. That would be the same as no wind coverage on a double-wide in Alabama!