High Water ALARM !!

[solanderi]

Not the most thrilling call you could get from your marina at 6:00 in the morning but it will definitely get your attention.

I (along w/ friendly help) was able to find 3 high water sensors on my '85 45C ...does that sound right? Unfortunately the alarm does not indicate which one of the sensors is the culprit. Of course I checked all the bilge spaces that I could see into and they were normal, no water.

The aft high water sensor had a wire hanging loose from it's bare butt end connector (gonna wanna change that). Are these sensors wired so they would alarm if they get disconnected?

What are the chances that the sensor itself would go bad? Thank you for any help.

Greg

 

[doc g]

Some of the "loops" in the alarm system are normally open and some are normally closed. If it is like the oil pressure circuit it is normally closed,which means if a wire breaks or falls off ,if the circiut gets opened in any way it sets off the alarm.

 

[Genesis]

The high water alarm is normally open unless it has been changed.

The three sensors on a 45C are in the forward bilge compartment (in the V-berth), which is physically isolated from the rest of the bilge, at the sump at the aft end of the engine room, and at the transom under the lazarette/fishbox hatch.

If any is shorted the alarm will ring. These are all cork floats with a magnet in them, tripping a reed switch inside the barrel.

They are all wired in parallel - if any trip the alarm rings. There is no separate annunciator (again, as stock) for the three zones.

 

[solanderi]

There are days when you are thankful for this site and the nice people that contribute ... and then there are the days when you really need help and it's there.....awesome.

I am going to trouble shoot the boat now and will let you know how it turned out. Genesis, just for grins, the float reed switch set-up sounds simple...have you heard of these sensors going bad? Is there any maintenance for them?

Thank you again.

Greg

 

[MikeP]

Be happy your marina called!

Our boat had an alarm sounding for 3 days. I found this out the day I went down, heard an alarm from at least 100 yards away, wondered who was the unfortunate person with a problem on his boat and found out it was me!

No call from the folks I pay more than 10G per year.

Alarm turned out to be a tripped shore power breaker which is nothing important but the alarm sound is exactly the same as the high water alarm and other important alarms. I guy on the dock told me it had been alarming for 3 days and he wondered what was wrong!

 

[dwaynec]

Hmm...... I wonder why the guy on the dock did not notify somebody. In my experience, boaters will notify somebody when they notice a problem, and an alarm in usually a (possibly big) problem.

In our marina, most of the boaters have set up "call lists" for all of the boats on the dock so that anybody can get hold of the boat owner if a potential problem is noticed. Of course there are a few exceptions to this as some people do not want to give out a number. Even in those cases the marina office is notified so that a call can be made, or if necessary action taken. I am sure that every marina has a couple non-boaters that own boats, and they are the ones that might say "Not my problem" and walk away. Luckily there are usually enough boaters around that will take appropriate action.

 

[MikeP]

What I have painfully discovered on several occasions with this boat and my previous boat is that the marina is interested in the marina, not in my boat.

Last season, the marina's bubblers were insufficient to keep the ice clear of the bow of Brigadoon in the slip they had assigned to the boat. I complained about it because the ice was jamming the stern of the boat into the dock, threatening the swim platform. They pointed out that per the contract, the bubblers are to protect the marina, not my boat!

I installed an ice eater to eliminate the problem. But it proved to me again that they are totally unconcerned with the welfare of any boats unless it profits them to be concerned.

Frankly, if the marina weren't so conveniant, I'd move the boat tomorrow, OK, not tomorrow, it's all winterized. But I fear that here on Long Island, it won't be much different anywhere else. LI sound and its environs is a great cruising area but after 12 years here I'm fed-up with the LI attitude and winter. Hope the Admiral gets the Mexico job she's being considered for...

Ixtapa here we come! (I hope)

 

[Genesis]

There are days when you are thankful for this site and the nice people that contribute ... and then there are the days when you really need help and it's there.....awesome.

I am going to trouble shoot the boat now and will let you know how it turned out. Genesis, just for grins, the float reed switch set-up sounds simple...have you heard of these sensors going bad? Is there any maintenance for them?

Thank you again.

Greg

No maintenance but they DO go bad. Unfortunately they usually fail open - which screws you hard as you have no idea they're dead until you need the switch and it doesn't close....

Check the connections (they're to terminal blocks and can short from salt deposits on the terminals in the area or from water intrusion into what is supposed to be a "sealed" space) and if you get nowhere start pulling one at a time until it stops - then replace the defective one.

 

[34Hatt]

Frankly, if the marina weren't so conveniant, I'd move the boat tomorrow, OK, not tomorrow, it's all winterized. But I fear that here on Long Island, it won't be much different anywhere else. LI sound and its environs is a great cruising area but after 12 years here I'm fed-up with the LI attitude and winter.

Mike I feel the same way my summer marina that's on the North Fork will ask people looking for a slip how much of their own work do they do. They don't want people like us that do it all, plus you have to be there year round.

 

[solanderi]

I took out all the butt end connectors (good and corroded ones) and I am still getting the alarm. Also, in going through everything I noticed one of the famous Rule switches which worked only one week ago is not turning the shower sump on. Additionally, the light in the head to indicate that the shower sump is activated is also not coming on...what do you make of that.

Since the theory is you always look for a unifying diagnosis for the patient rather than two separate entities...are the shower sump/float/light in any way related to the high water alarm? Thank you,

Greg

 

[Traveler 45C]

Could be. Perhaps they both are powered from the same feed or terminal strip. Or, a previous owner robbed power from one of the circuits to feed the other. You’ll know once you trace them both back to their origins.

 

[Genesis]

Yep - time to break out the voltmeter.

 

[captddis]

Are you sure you did not cut the wire to the shower sump? Did you disconnect all three floats? The fwd alarm is hidden off to the side. Also I believe the aft alarm is on the term block with the bilge pump. These get corroded easily and can bridge the terminals.

 

[Genesis]

Yep - that terminal block is a high-risk area on the transom above the rudder shelf - I have had to replace it once as when I tried to rework some wiring parts of it crumbled.

Spray well with Boeshield when you get done - if there's any visible corrosion on it that's likely where the problem is coming from.

 

[solanderi]

I jumper wired all of the high water sensors thereby eliminating any butt-end connectors etc but am still getting the alarm . I then spent time in the forward bilge dealing with corroded terminal strips. The good news was that I have the old rule switch/pump/light circuit up and running (sorry to have bashed the Rule switch as a culprit earlier)...just a case of an unprotected terminal strip.

Tomorrow I will just continue knocking out one corroded terminal strip at a time. I found a cool "new" product at the marine store to play with tomorrow, it's CLEAR liquid electric tape. I had used the black stuff in the past and I have seen red, green, yellow etc but this was thie first time I ever saw the clear stuff. Maybe that will allow a person to tell if the liquid tape is working and also give a cleaner "look".

To anyone whose High Water Alarm, sensor system is quiet tonight, please take my humble advice and seal your terminal strips, butt-end connectors and spray your switches with Corrosion block or Bo Shield or whatever because Rust Never Sleeps! Well until I find the problem....beep, beep, beep, beep,.....

Greg

 

[captddis]

Your system is a normally open system. Remove one float at a time until it stops.

 

[Nonchalant1]

When you look at your high water sensors, do they look like karl described? Some are much more simple than that. Mine are just two prongs on a wire and if they get wet, they close a circuit and the alarm goes off.

BYW - Our marina recently installed an alarm system on a different boat that calls you on it's cell phone, or the boat's cell phone if any alarm goes off, and it tells you which alarm it was, including forced entry alarm or motion sensors. Cool idea!

Doug

 

[Maynard Rupp]

Is Bo-Shield the best corrosion proffer. What about AC-50 etc. I may move my fresh water Hat to Miami. I want it to look as like new 5 years after I move it. No green thru hulls, corroded, (green), terminal strips etc. Can it be done?? What about using something like clear Awlrgip on some of those brass fittings and thru-hulls? We also have clean bare aluminum supports under our salon floor. Should I clear coat them? What do you guys do about the anodized window frames? Sorry to get off the thread a little.

 

[captddis]

Boeshield is the best I have found. The clear works for a while, but is a pain to remove.

 

[Genesis]

Yep - boeshield is an aerospace product - those folks are even more anal than we are, and for good reason - while we can't get out and walk, they fall down when their stuff breaks