Help-Generator trouble on vacation in Bahamas

[garyd]

Northern Lights 8kw 1999. It has always worked perfect. It struggled and quit. So I changed Fuel filters but the problem continues.

It is repeatable here goes.

It will run for 1 minute and 45 seconds. Then starts to die for 5 seconds a little then comes back and tries to die for 5 seconds then comes back and the third time tries to die again and sometimes does then it comes back strong only to repeat this every 1 minute and 45 seconds it does it consitantly over and over again.

I can put a full load on it during the time it is running normally without a problem.

It will do the same thing with or without the generator circuit breaker on.

I thought it might be fuel related like a plugged pick up but the timing is too perfect.

If you stop it during the dying cycle it has a hard time starting. If you stop it when it is running normally it starts normally. I can't get a good enough internet connection to bring up NL's site to search for a solution.

We are at Sampson cay club marina in the Exumas. WE are only going to be here a couple of more days then we start our way back Home. But being from Bradenton we have about 500 NM to travel and I sure would like to get it fixed for the journey.

Any Help would be apreciated.

Thanks garyd

 

[MikeP]

Sure SOUNDS like a fuel issue. That timing thing is just what a restricted fuel supply would do - run normally until the existing fuel flow is overcome by the engine's use of the fuel.

Do you have a separate primary (racor, whatever) as well as the genny-mounted filter? If so, did you change both? Try putting the genny's fuel pick-up hose into a container of diesel fuel and see what happens, that will at least prove that it either is or is not a fuel supply issue.

Any fuel valves that could have been accidentally moved to the off or nearly off position?

That is what I would do if it was me.

It's possible that some sort of electrical problem is causing a shut-off signal to be sent to the fuel solenoid but I have no expertise in the circuitry involved. But you could also attempt to bypass the shutoff relay...

 

[Finalee]

Sure sounds like fuel. Try disconnecting the fuel supply at the filter and blow back into it. If some gunk is hanging on the pick up it will restrict the flow, as the rpms drop the fuel requirement drops. The fuel will be replenished and the cycle starts again.

 

[Captned]

Another fuel guy on the bandwagon. Try and bypass all fuel filters and run direct to see if it helps. Just long enough to test...

Sure wish I was in Sampson....

Captned
78 46 CON

 

[Genesis]

Sounds like a fuel restriction to me too. Probably some crap over the pickup in the tank.

Put an air line on the line going to the tank (disconnect before the filter) and blow it backwards. Then reconnect, re-prime (run the electric lift pump if you have one; on my Kohler this was done by disconnecting the starter solenoid lead and hitting the start button - the fuel pump would run but the unit would not crank) until it has fuel, and see if that fixes it.

 

[Brian Degulis]

Garyd sure sounds like fuel starvation or shut down or fuel on solenoid. Run a temparary fuel line from the pumps suction into a container of fuel and see if the problem is on the suction side. If it still dies out then look to the solenoids you probably have a fuel supply solenoid instead of a shutdown. Some where on the injection pump there should be something with one or two wires on it probably just one. It should be energized to run try a jumper to check the circuit. Most fuel on solenoids have a way of overiding them if they fail.

Brian

 

[garyd]

Thanks guys your the best. I can remove the hose from the pick up. It should be easy as it is located in the cockpit with a cover that gives plenty of access. The pick up tube could also be removed but I'm concerned that I might break it then I'd be SOL. I think I can use two wrenches and the old squeeze technique to get the hose off.

Brian I did find what I believe is a fuel solenoid and it has a single wire going to it. So in the morning I can start there and see what happens. Then continue down the fuel path if that doesn't get it done. I have two filters a racor 500 then an engine mounted "oil filter " type. I changed both and can see the glass bowl of the racor is clean.

This Marina is Upscale and If I started the genereator in the middle of the night they would probably faint. Every boat in here looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor. Most folks are giving their boats a $100.00 bath as they use water like it's going out of style and are paying 50 cents a gallon. Heck I told my crew get wet lather up and then rinse. The old navy shower.

I'll be up early and get right at it. This is the first spot I have been able to get the internet to work on my wireless laptop. It is slow and drops off a lot.

The model of the generator is a Norhern lights PX 303.

Fuel has gone up over a dollar a gallon since we started the trip. And most places do not have fuel. We are going slowwwwwww. LOL.

Thanks again I'll try to let you know what works to fix it.

garyd

 

[Genesis]

If the solenoid is a "pull to run" deal then that could be the issue - the coil may have an intermittent in it and when it gets warm it drops out.

If so its easy - if it drops out and everything else is ok (oil pressure, temperature, etc) hold it in and it should continue to run if that's the problem.

The issue with doing that as a way to keep the genset going is that you've just defeated all the safety systems. If the oil pressure goes or the unit overheats with the solenoid "hard pulled" (e.g. with a tie wrap or similar) you're hosed - it won't shut down.

I had an Onan genset that had this sort of arrangement when I bought my Hatt - it had a dual coil; one start winding to pull it in and one "run" winding to hold it. I never had trouble with it (the unit failed for other reasons and I replaced it due to age and general condition) but there was a spare solenoid on board when I bought the boat and the one on the genset looked pretty new - apparently the previous owner had a spit of trouble with it at some point in the past.

 

[Brian Degulis]

Garyd If you can don't go to the pick up tube at the tank. Run a temp suction line directly from the fuel pump suction so you eliminate everthing filters hoses etc to see if the problem is there.

You probably don't have the external soloniod with an arm on it that you can hold in. It's probably a small device threaded directly into the injection pump (looks like a temperture sender). If you can identifiy it try energizing it with a jumper if that does it then look for an electrical problem. If you suspect the fuel solonoid itself there should be a way to by pass it mechanicaly look in the manual if you have one or check with NL.

If you need anything I can help you with just let me know PM me if you don't have my tel #s with you.

Brian

 

[garyd]

Good morning.

Got up at 6:30am and opened it up to get access etc. I thought 7:00am generator start wouldn't bug anybody so fired it up. Same problem. This was after working on it last night a while.

So found the fuel solenoid wire was slightly loose, slightly corroded. Fixed that but still no luck. Was able to hold it on but still no luck.

So I went to the fuel pick up hose and took that off, interesting that it was not tight but not loose maybe just finger tight or less. Put the pick up in a bottle of Diesel Clean. Still the same problem.

However I was looking at the bowl on the racor and noticed some air and when it sputtered I could see the air move. So I took the cap off took the new filter out (it was clean) removed everything I could from the racor drained cleaned and blew through every orifice known to man. I'm still spitting out diesel fuel.

I refilled the Racor with diesel clean put the hose pickup back on tightened it and then took a large plastic handled screw driver and use the plastic end to rap on any fuel fittings I could find.

Started the generator and BINGO she's a running fine. Thank GOD.

And thanks to you'all.

If I was a betting man I would say that the fuel pick up line being ever so slightly loose was the problem.

I'm hoping the problem doesn't reoccur. but for now it is working fine.

Thanks again.

Brian thanks for the offer I'll keep it in mind.

It helps to know you'all are out there as we are Solo on this trip and it is not a trip for the faint of heart. It is pretty rugged in the Exumas and if you don't get into a Marina anchoring out is fine but you always need to be ready to be set for a wild ride if the wind changes and there is no moving at night except for the locals. But it sure is beautiful.

We have our Sea legs having traveled around 600NM so far but sometimes It has turned into work. I'll try to write a little summary when we return.

Garyd

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Most of these units have a shut down valve on the injection pump. I got this for my westerbeke. An OEM unit is better than $300 but any decent injection shop has them for less than $30.00 Go figure!
The Onan runs a start/run/shut down solenoid. ws

 

[Captned]

Ahhhhhhh....Exumas.....

 

[Genesis]

Ahhhhh.....

Sounds like the fuel line was loose and some air got in the line. That'll do it.

 

[34Hatt]

Most of these units have a shut down valve on the injection pump. I got this for my westerbeke. An OEM unit is better than $300 but any decent injection shop has them for less than $30.00 Go figure!
The Onan runs a start/run/shut down solenoid. ws

Crap now you tell me

Thanks for the Tip Bill
So Scrod should be able to get me one?????
For 30 bucks Ill buy a spare

 

[yachtsmanbill]

I bought mine at Midwest Fuel Injection Svc, Bolingbrook,Il. They come in 12 and 24 VDC. Very standard part. In an emergency, I believe you can remove it and put a 1/4 npt plug in the hole. Shut down is then another issue! ws

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Crap now you tell me

Thanks for the Tip Bill
So Scrod should be able to get me one?????
For 30 bucks Ill buy a spare

So you thought I was sh OO ting you? I dont know if you priced OEM units or not but they bite the weenie! ws
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...m=200233276805&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=010

 

[Avenger]

In an emergency, I believe you can remove it and put a 1/4 npt plug in the hole. Shut down is then another issue! ws

NG on the pipe plug, but if you took the plunger and spring out and screwed the coil back in it would be okay. Keep a piece of plywood handy for shutdowns.

BTW, an external solenoid like the Onan one you show is going to be a few extra bucks because it's supplied by the engine manufacturer, whereas the one you show for the Westerbeast comes with the injection pump and is standard across several different manufacturer's lines. And yes Bill, $235.00 for that solenoid is just flat-out robbery.

There. More information than you ever needed or wanted.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Hey Scrod... whats hthe plywood for ?? to choke the unit off? ws

 

[Avenger]

Yep. I'd say use a rag or similar, but I saw a guy lose a down vest to a runaway Oldsmobile diesel once. Funny, but scary too.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Ya know those GMCs will run on anything that burns! ws