Hatteras LRC questions:

[ADaily3224]

A good friend of mine is selling his 36 Cape Dory sail boat and getting a power boat. He's a very knowledgeable boater, experienced, but he has that sail boat mentality. Go slow, spend no dough. I've been trying to get him interested in a Hatteras with little success. He has his eye on a Krogen 42 full displacement trawler. They are one expensive boat, and not very handsome, well maybe ugly would better describe them. Hopefully I haven't insulted anyone, it's just one guy's opinion. Anyway I took a look at one of these Krogens and understand why he likes it, although I don't. It's just like a fat sail boat without a mast, actually it has a mast but not much of one. The broker who showed me the boat was very honest and accommodating. He told me that the Krogens have some bottom issues, de lamination, soaked core material is fairly common with this model. These boats are completely cored, none for me thanks. The boat I looked at had the entire bottom opened up, peeled, core material replaced, re-fiberglassed, and put back together. I noticed a couple of the listings stated "fully restored". Armed with this new information I attempted to interest my friend in a Hatteras Long Rage Cruiser. Thus the reason for this post. The biggest concern seems to be the DDC453's and the noise they produce. Is it true you can hear one of these things coming from a mile away? Do they have to be stabilized? How do they handle? Are there any year or run number to stay away from. Are the forum members who own the 42 happy?
There aren't many for sale just like the Krogen. I personally like the Hatteras looks much better and I'll bet they are a better handling boat. I know the Krogen is going to be tender. Just stepping on board made the boat roll to one side like it was full of water. Kind of a weird feeling on such a big boat. I realize it's a round chine but boy it was rolling around in it's slip just from me walking around the decks. How would the Hatteras compare in that department? So I'm hoping to get some insight on the 42 LRC in the hope I can move my friend to a Hatteras Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks everyone.
Tony D

 

[Genesis]

The LRC will not be nearly as economical - its just a matter of running two engines rather than one. A single-engine hull will be more efficient every time due to the lower running friction and less parasitic loss in the engines (there's only one instead of two!)

I've not run an LRC but from what I've seen of them they sure look nice tho...

 

[SeaEric]

Those Krogen 42's are loaded with built in, typical problems. It is amazing that they remain so popular. If it's not the bottom, with either the wet core or "oil canning" deflection problems, its electrical nightmares or deck core saturation. They even have a situation where water leaks down from the boat deck thru the fashion panels and into the hull, into a compartment that does not drain, that contains the iron fuel tank! So this results in the diesel tank being immersed in trapped water in the bilge. Way cool. I have a customer that wants one of these. We have been shopping for two full years. We have surveyed two boats and have purchased neither. I now have a buyer who's an expert though. He has sure paid dearly for his education.

Tell your friend to pony up for the fuel to run the 42 LRC, or pony up the $$ and buy a Nordhavn 46.

 

[Boss Lady]

blow boats (yin) power boats (yang). Totally different worlds. No such thing as cheap on a power boat. Most sail boaters think because wind is free, everything else should be too! He is in for a rude awakening and it will be double worse if he buys something other than a Hatteras. It amazes me that more blow boaters are not dead after looking at the vessels they chose to go to sea in. With that said, if the Krogen has a fully cored hull, run the other way as fast as possible. While cored hulls are very strong and light, when they do develop a problem it goes catastrophic very quickly. What might be a minor problem with a full glass hull, can become a very major problem with a cored hull. I would not get out of the ICW in a cored hull boat. If the boat he is looking at already has a major delamination problem he is setting himself up for failure, a lot of money and possibly jeopordise his family and himself. I don't trust coring below the waterline when new, and you will be putting a lot of faith in the repair abilities of who ever supposedly recored the hull. Coring for a race boat is one thing, on something my life depends on a 100 miles from nowhere, there is no way. The LRCs are great boats as efficent as you will find for a twin engine powerboat of that size, very seaworthy, tremendous range, and hold their value extremely well. Do some research on the LRC and some of the new trawler types. You can get something comparable to the LRC but be prepared to spend megabucks to get one. As far as noise goes, there are some really good and inexpensive options for sound proofing now. So the noise issue can be improved if you find it offensive. Two engines are one, One engine is none in my book. Good luck with the search.

 

[captbuddy]

Tony,
We have a 81, 42' LRC "Beach Nut". It has the 453 Naturals. Easy to work on. When up on the flybridge I don't think the engines are that noisy. I kind of like the sound of that diesel. They burn 2.2 gal per hour per engine running at 8 kts. We looked at a lot of boats in the 2 years before buying but after looking at the 42 LRC, every boat we looked at later we were comparing to the LRC. It just took me about 4 months to get the owner down enough so we could afford it. Really love the two doors, one on each side. It just feels like it opens the boat up. Engine room has pretty good access. I just can't say enough positive stuff about the boat. I just feel very forutate to be able to own one. Or should we say, to be owned by one. Either way, I feel your friend would love the boat. I've had so many compliments by people walking by it's unbelievable. Just the other day I anchored off Shell Island and dinghed the ladies to the beach. While at the beach I looked back at "Beach Nut" and said wow, now that looks sharp. Good luck with your friend. Oh yea. My friend is a aircraft electrican and the first thing he said when he saw the wiring was that it was wired like an aircraft. He was very impressed.
captbuddy

 

[thoward]

A properly rigged sail boat is every bit as expensive to maintain as a Powerboat. I am just not made to be a ragbagger so sailing is out but if I was to retire and just wanted to cruise the islands I would be looking at single engine trawlers as well. Cored hulls are not necessarly a bad thing, it depends on the core. Boston Whaler has been making cored hulls for years with good sucess. There are some very high end boats that use cold molding. Bottom line, it is still a cored hull. There are lots of folks out there who are fair weather boaters and they are not going to go out if it is more than 2-3'. So not everyone needs a Hatteras. My issue with a quality cored hull is the P/O. Where did they drill holes or screw down items and did they seal them properly?

 

[Maynard Rupp]

I own and race a 35' sailboat. That is not a cheap thing to do. I would never cruise a sailboat. It is like living in a tube. I do maintain all our clubs workboats and the Boston Whalers that we have had were pure junk. The core absorbs water until the boats waterline is almost at the gunnel. That is when we cut them up. When we do cut them up, that foamed in core is soaking wet. Cored hulls might be OK if they use closed cell foam. We love our Carolina skiffs. Great boats, and the core doesn't get wet.

 

[Beckytek]

I bought a 36 Krogen Manatee brand new in 1986. It had a 90 hp Volvo Penta diesel and burned 3 gph at 7.5 kts. It had an overhead leak that took 2 years to find and repair. When it rained water would leak into the cabin through the balsa cored overhead. We rebedded all the stantions twice and checked everything imaginable but couldn't find the source. I finally used a thin epoxy product (can't remember name) and poured it all along the pilot house connections to the deck and this cured it. This is a common problem as other owners have complained about. I have a friend who never did find the source and after 18 years he said anywhere he drills a hole brown water comes out. His core must be mush by now. The hull had hard chines and had a very snappy motion in beam seas. The 42 hull is different and looks just like a sail boat. My boat was very quiet in the pilot house could not even hear the engine. Much different on the back deck though. They hold there value though, I paid 100K in 1986 and they are still selling for 100 to 150K. Many of the bottoms have been redone due to water intrusion and they used closed cell foam too. I enjoyed it very much and would probably still own it if I didn't lose it in a storm on the Chesapeake. Ron

 

[ADaily3224]

My friend talked to a surveyor who warned of the same Krogen deficiencies as Eric. The Nordhaven would certainly be on the top of the list, problem is the price. The interest level is increasing for the 42 Hatteras LRC. There's no denying reputation, design, and it's overall good looks. Anyone else out there who is willing to give a sound endorsement of this model? Does anyone know where their may be a good one for sale. The listings on Yachtworld are obviously a good place to start. If anyone has looked at any of the listings and can help out it would be appreciated. Thanks for the information already received.
Tony D

 

[jim rosenthal]

Tony,
There is actually a company locally who have made a tidy living "fixing" the core and other problems on Krogens- Osprey Composites. They do a good job at a prodigious price, if you can say that there is such a thing as a good job on a boat that was poorly constructed to start with. It is really surprising that those boats have the following that they do...a triumph of hope over experience.

The LRC is a good choice. Personally I don't think that the 4-53s make much noise, but sail boaters think everything other than the wind is noisy. The Nordhavn costs four times as much as the LRC, and unless he is determined to cross oceans, he wouldn't get four times the use out of it. There are six or seven, maybe more, 42 LRCs for sale at rasonable prices- he'll have some choices. A good trawler yacht is the least expensive way to go power boating- best bang for the buck if you don't mind going slow. And you get the Hatteras quality, the Hatteras name, and the resale value. AND- if he really loved the boat- a repower with Luggers or Yanmars etc would not cost much and the boat would be REALLY quiet and hardly burn any fuel at all.

 

[dastahl]

Tony,
I own Skooch a 42 LRC 1980. Hatteras made 56 42 hulls in two versions. The Mark II (Skooch is hull 1 of the 29 Mark IIs) for 1980 to 1986. The Mark I from 1975 to 1979. The Mark II has a full width aft cabin, extended saloon, larger flybridge and L-shaped galley. Mark I had the galley along the stb side and walk around aft deck. Both have the same hull.

I get 4 GPH at 7.5 knots and 5 gph at 8.0 knots. The boat has a range over 1200 miles and is very economical to run. The motion is very comfortable and everyone who has traveled with us notices the smooth motion even in heavy seas. No jolts on Skooch. We have stabilizers but have cruised many miles without them (cause they break a lot).

It is difficult to compare the KK42 to the LRC 42 because they are two different types of boats. The KK42 is a pilot house configuration so it has the house but very small staterooms and one head with a small shower. Sailboat people can walk up to the showers. W've all seen them Not me.

Skooch has two very large cabins and large showers. The salon is bigger and the galley is bigger. The fly bridge is twice to three times bigger on the LRC. The LRC is a much better sea boat, you'll have to take my word for that one. KK42s roll and worse they pitch and in the choppy Chesapeake that hurts.

As for the wiring and mechanical stuff its Hatteras and thus is world class. The KK42 is made in China. The LRC has two motors, the KK42 is drifting if the Ford tractor motor quits. The tractor motors are well loved but they rattle and vibrate. The 4-53s hum and yes they are noisy. That is the thing I like least about the DDs they are loud. Especially when idling. On the fly bridge its relatively quiet no complain there, but I cannot sneak out of the marina. But fixing DDs is relatively cheap. I had one re-built by DD for $10K. Parts are available everywhere. Not so with the English Ford.

Things to watch for are mostly the standard Hatteras problems, windows and cored deck. Check these out on any purchase. Of course these things can be fixed. I'm fixing the fore deck on Skooch after finding a small soft spot that turned into a bow pulpit removal. Thanks to this forum for info on that mess.

The LRCs are cheaply priced on the market compared to the KK42 or Grand Banks 42. They are all good boats, but the LRC is a better boat at half the investment. IMHO

Fuel economy is a joke with these boats. I cruise a few times a year with a KK42 and he burns something like 2.5 to 3 gallons per hour. He also cruises at 7 knots. Well, I've never gone that slowly for long enough to figure Skooch's fuel burn. I ran almost wide open from Annapolis to New Bern NC last year doing over 8.5 knots trying to keep up with a 58 LRC. I bet I burned some fuel on that trip, but I carry so much I really never noticed. All I can say is if I get a chance to burn a tank of fuel in my LRC I have had a great cruising season. I spend much much more on dinners, dockage, insurance and upkeep than fuel. I think I drink more rum than that

You can see Skooch on the front page of the LRC Club's web site this month www.hatterasLRC.com.

David Stahl
Skooch
Worton Creek MD

 

[mischief]

We too own a Hatteras LRC 42'.
Mischief is a Mark 1 without stabilizers, originally sold to an Austrian engineer who kept it in Trieste, Italy.
Last year, my wife and I spent over 700 engine hours on the boat, burning 4.2 gals/hr at an average speed of 7.5 knots.
This rugged boat performed flawlessly without any mechanical failures. A month ago we replaced the aging Onan MDJE with a NL 8KW in preparation for the 2007 downeast loop.

 

[ADaily3224]

Thanks for the information, it's been very helpful.

I wanted to send the link to the site and this particular section of the forum to my friend but I was hesitant. My comment "go slow, spend no dough" was in reference to fuel consumption. This is my fault as I should have said fuel consumption is a major consideration. Tom, wants to retire and cruise. He had both hips replaced in a 12 month period, and getting around the foredeck of a sail boat isn't something he is willing to do anymore. As far as knowing what it cost to own and operate a boat. He presently owns a 36 Cape Dory, which some people may consider the "Hatteras" of sail boats. Over the last 6 years of ownership he's spent $66,400. in material and some sublet labor, most labor was done by him. I won't go into detail but suffice to say the Cape D is new. A few high lights, new engine and gear, new A/C, rewired, new power panel, shaft, log, sails, furling gear, sheets, electronics, it goes on and on and he did 90% himself. The first person to look at the boat agreed to purchase but later buyers remorse set in, the buyer wants to look at a few more, good luck.
The previous boat was a 45 foot cutter rigged heavy duty ocean going sail boat. Tom bought a bare hull and deck mold in 1980 and built the boat from there. Tom did everything, installed a Perkins 60 HP engine, wiring, tanks, exhaust, A/C, pressure water, built the interior, cabin sole, basically built the entire boat, and sailed it for 20 years. So he is as knowledgeable as most anyone on this forum, and knows what it cost to own a boat, sail or power. He's starting to become serious about the 42 LRC and the 48LRC , although the 48's are even scarcer and more expensive. My original push was to get him to buy a classic 53 cockpit motor yacht and run it slow, I think they are fairly economical at 9 knots or so, but after reading a few owners reports the 42LRC should be fine. By the way, if anyone you know is looking for a 36 Cape Dory Tom's is the one. There is quite bit of interest in Tom's boat, I doubt it will be for sale long as he's very realistic and flexible on terms and cost that's why the quest of a Hatteras has started before his boat is sold.
As I said before, anyone knows of a good 42LRC or 48LRC or any other suggestions send them my way. Eric, if you have any ideas send me PM, Thanks again,

Tony D

 

[Maynard Rupp]

I know that many larger Hats have stabalizers, but are they really needed or just kinda' a nice feature. I have heard that the LRC Hats are awful without stabalizers. Is that also true? The LRCs do appear to have very rounded underbodies;I do know that a sailboat without its mast is an awful ride for sure.

 

[jim rosenthal]

From what I can gather, they make a big difference. One of our CYCA members went to Bermuda from NC without them working, and got a lot of complaints from his crew He didn't seem to mind too much, but they did. I think if you were going offshore, you would want to have them, or have them functioning if you had them (some folks say they break a lot). For coastal cruising, I am not sure you need them. I'd be interested to hear other opinions.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

From what I can gather, they make a big difference. One of our CYCA members went to Bermuda from NC without them working, and got a lot of complaints from his crew He didn't seem to mind too much, but they did. I think if you were going offshore, you would want to have them, or have them functioning if you had them (some folks say they break a lot). For coastal cruising, I am not sure you need them. I'd be interested to hear other opinions.

Naiads are pretty reliable. The old system is just a hydraulic pump, a gyro, and a couple of cylinders. Not too much to break there. However, I know a guy with a 60MY that has Wilcox stabilizers and he is always working on those. They use chains and electric motors.

I will say this about stabilizers. They are nice. And if you don't have them, you don't know what you are missing. Then, once you do have a boat with them, you will never go back. I didn't think much about it when we bought our 53ED, but now after having them, I realize just what a difference they make.

 

[Genesis]

IMHO they're a big deal.

For a true offshore (displacement speed) powerboat you should ALSO have on board a flopper-stopper rig - those rarely break, while electronic stabs do.

Flopper stoppers don't work on plane, so there's no point on something like a MY which can come up on top. But for a LRC, I'd fit 'em in any event - having the stabs go down at an inappropriate time sucks.

 

[REBrueckner]

Stablizers are unnecessary and a waste of money on rivers, and most sounds and protected waters, nice to have for those who make long and frequent coastal passages and don't have time to wait for calm weather, and a near necessity for frequent and long distance offshore and ocean crossings. If you can plan your trips to avoid nasty weather, they are an awfully expensive option.

They make a huge difference in roll (beam seas) ;I'm not so sure how much on pitch (bow or stern seas). On the other hand, if you have money for them, why not?

 

[SeaEric]

It's been my experience that the folks who have stabilizer problems, are not doing the preventative maintenance that should be performed. If they are serviced properly at the suggested intervals, they generally perform as they should. It's just like anything else on a boat!