Gremlin II. Stop Solenoid 6V92TA

[bobk]

Last summer the port stop solenoid was erratic. I changed it and had no trouble for the next 200 hours. Now on our cruise north, the new solenoid did the same thing, or didn't. The engine would not stop when the button was pressed. Holding it in slowed the motor, then it eventually stopped. I sprayed the ram with WD40 and it worked OK the next day. Ideas?

Is there any concern with holding the button in and waiting for the motor to stop? I picture a start in reverse or something. If I use the manual shutdown which is not a damper on this engine, will I need to reset something to get going again?

Bob

 

[Finalee]

Sounds like it is bad again. Have you checked the voltage readings at the solenoid when the toggle is depressed?

 

[Genesis]

DO NOT leave this alone. The linkage is binding somewhere. Find the problem and solve it - yes, the engine CAN start backwards if you don't.

Until you find the binding use the manual pull. Its fine and requires no attention (assuming you do not have air doors, but just a pull on the stop lever)

 

[bobk]

Thanks guys. I got my back out of whack and can't get into the ER this morning, but I recall two electrical connections on the solenoid. Will these be 12V+ and 12V-? I'll surely check it out. I didn't see anthing binding, but it takes a strong pull to close the the solenoid manually. The starboard side seems to require the same effort. Beyond that there doesn't seem to be anything binding.

The manual stop is just pulling the solenoid closed. No air doors.

Bob

 

[Genesis]

Yes, its a strong pull that is required. Perhaps your hold-open spring is in the wrong place (or was replaced and is too strong?)

Two things are critical with that stop lever. It must NEVER be anywhere other than FULLY at STOP or RUN. So long as it is always decidedly in one of those two positions and NEVER anywhere else all is good.

This is one of those "gotta do it right" things on a Detroit, and it can and will eventually bite you if you play fast and loose with this rule. Sputtering and lighting back up running BACKWARDS is one of the potential consequences and is an absolute DISASTER for your engine room (and engine if not caught INSTANTLY) if it happens.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

This is true. I have seen several DD's run backwards and you really don't want it to happen on your boat. Black sooty exhaust comes out of the air cleaners as it picks up intake air (and maybe even water ) from the exhaust. Not good.

 

[bobk]

Thanks. I've heard and will heed your advice: checked today to be sure all is free and lubricated. There seems to be no binding etc. Until I can get to a port for a few days, I'll use the emergency stop if the button doesn't get an immediate response.

Bob

 

[Trojan]

Try cleaning your electrical connections. A high resistance any place could lower the coil voltage and lesson it's ability to pull. The spraying of WD-40 may have helped lowed this resistance for a time. When it sets the connections oxidize and the connections builds resistance.

BILL

 

[bobk]

Well, after a couple of years, I've got this issue again. In re-reading related posts, I suspect I need to re-check the alignment as the electrical connections are fine. When cold, the solenoid seems fine. Don't want to buy a new one again. Any further tips on checking and correcting alignment?

Bob Kassal
Chateau de Mer
lying Isle of Palms waiting for weather

 

[bobk]

Update.... I started looking for 'alignment' issues on the stop system of the port engine and found the spring was mounted in a way that it dragged on the bolt that secures the angle bracket that the spring is hooked to. I pulled the spring up to the hole it should have been in to eliminate the extra friction, lubed and cleaned everything and the solenoid worked fine.... cold.

One difference between the engines, the spring on the rebuilt starboard engine is mounted to the solenoid arm where it bends up to the govenor lever whereas on the port engine it is mounted to the first hole past the solenoid arm. The latter probably increases the required solenoid effort. I'll probably change this to match the starboard engine if I haved any further problem... one variable at a time. I didn't see or feel any indication of binding on either engine.

Bob Kassal
Chateau de Mer
1981 48MY

 

[SeaEric]

Take a better look at the electrical side of this problem. We had the exact same behavior on a 1991 52 CPMY and it turned out to be caused by some corrosion on the connections inside a fuse panel in the ER.

 

[bobk]

Eric, that was the first thing I did and no joy.

Bob

 

[Genesis]

Next time it's "slow" put a voltmeter on the solenoid terminals while someone pushes the button. If you don't see effectively full system voltage (e.g. 12V for a 12V solenoid) then you've got high resistance somewhere. That's a high-current connection and it doesn't take much.

 

[Finalee]

Had trouble on my port motor. The arm off the solenoid had several holes for different angles of attack. After switching the holes the problem went away. Appaernetly the linkage would bind and the solenoid could not overcome it.

 

[bobk]

I'll give it a try. Thanks.

Bob Kassal

Next time it's "slow" put a voltmeter on the solenoid terminals while someone pushes the button. If you don't see effectively full system voltage (e.g. 12V for a 12V solenoid) then you've got high resistance somewhere. That's a high-current connection and it doesn't take much.

 

[bobk]

We are at anchor north of Beaufort, SC. Tried to stop the port engine and it only slowed down so I pulled the lever by hand. No strain or stickyspots. Next with the engine stopped and the key on, Gayle pressed the stop button and I measured 11 volts across the terminals. The solenoid would not engage completely, but with just a little assist, it pulled right in. Thoughts? I already cleaned the terminals and lubed them with corrosion block.

Bob Kassal
Chateau de Mer
Lying Wimbee Creek

 

[SeaEric]

I hate to keep beating this same drum, but- Did you look inside a DC panel in the ER that you have to take screws out to get into? If not, look in there.

 

[Genesis]

11V across the terminals and it's probably ok electrically to the button. That's not much drop - a bit more than I'd like, but not much.

MIGHT be a bad solenoid, but check geometry and return spring..... It doesn't take much to be off there; if a "bit" of hand assist did it, that's more than enough to cause the problem.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I doubt it's the spring. I have to agree with Eric on this. You need more voltage and you have to check all connections. Trace it back to the panel first. To know for sure if it's a bad solenoid, you can always swap it with the other one and see if the problem follows. BTW, what is the voltage on the good engine?

 

[bobk]

BTW, what is the voltage on the good engine?

Excellent question. It was too hot to get back there or I would have the answer. Still, I think I'll reposition the spring to match the other engine. That will reduce the required force a little. Interesting that it is fine when the ER is not hot.

Bob Kassal