Fwd head hose replacement on 54MY

[Bill Root]

The forward head discharge hose from the GM pump to the overboard seacock has ruptured and will need to be replaced. The pump is located in the bilge under the forward stateroom floor. The hose runs through the generator room, apparently under the floor because it isn't visible in the gen room, to a seacock located in the starboard engine room bilge.

If anyone has done this project and can provide advice, I would appreciate it. I'm particularly interested to know if the hose is fastened anywhere under the floor of the generator room. I'm hoping it isn't so that I can attach the new hose to the old and just pull it through.

Thanks very much.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Hey Bill... get out the sawzall!! That really seems like a long run, like 25 feet maybe? Is there a spare seacock under the V berth that may be more accessable? Thats where my GM pump was with a seacock right below it. You could retire that old hose in place. On a pressurized waste system, I would want to keep that run as short as possible for obvious reasons!
If ya hafto, can you splice a new section in? ws

 

[Bill Root]

Hi Bill:

Thanks for the idea, but I don't think it will work for me. The waste holding tank is under the companionway floor between the two forward doors of the engine rooms. The seacocks for all three toilets are in the bilge at the forward end of the starboard engine room, right next to the holding tank. They are double valves that allow the waste water to go either overboard or to the holding tank, depending on which valves are opened/closed. So, if I relocated the discharge hose to a seacock closer to the pump I would then need to run another long hose from that seacock to the holding tank.

To compound the problem, there is literally no room for anyone other than a skinny twelve year old to get down in front of the engine to work on the valves. I'm going to have to take off the heat exchanger and coolant tank to get enough room to work. I can't imagine what Hatteras was thinking when they laid out this arrangement.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

I can't imagine what Hatteras was thinking when they laid out this arrangement.



Thats just it... they werent! Having seen first hand what a wreck the sub is/was, you can probably appreciate my having to cut my own hatches into walls and floors to access certain systems. Theres been times when I thought Id hafta have Pat hook a strap around my ankles and pull me out with a chain fall... theres been times when Ive had her crawl into a hole to break 40 year old tubing connections and we all know how tight that stuff can be. We hold a dry run rehearsal on deck before she enters the hinterlands! Shes a willing student for sure!
Dont discount having to ad or move a fitting on the tank for better routing either. No where is it written that bubba had the last word; last laugh maybe, but thats not always the best either! ws

 

[Angela]

I re-hosed my entire boat all by myself and it was NOT fun - funny how everyone is suddenly “busy” when that chore makes it way to the top of the list. But, it was do-able if you really, really want it done - nothing is impossible!

Yes, I found that there were fasteners every 12 or 18 inches. I removed what hose I could and cut them off where they went to a dark space and were attached to the underside of the floor. I left them there. You can spray some of that liquid foam insulation in the ends of the old hoses to “plug” them if odor is an issue, but short of ripping up the floor, you’re not likely to get them out completely. I ran new hose, most of the time using the same general path as the old, but on occasion, I would find a route that worked better given the constraints of having to re-hose a boat that was already completely manufactured.

If you have someone to help you that would be awesome. I spent a LOT of time running back and forth trying to push and pull hose - one run was about 45' or so - from the aft master head to the forward holding tank under the bow cabin floor (ugh!) - with a number of twists and turns. Sometimes, I’d have to use a narrow stick to help guide the hose to a hole in a bulkhead when it was going through a bilge space that had no access. It was quite an aggravating job, but I’m happy it’s done, and it was quite an accomplishment.

I used PVC where I could - for that long run up the side of the boat under the exhaust tubes, I would insert a 6' section of PVC (because that’s all I could fit through the cabinet at a time), and then glue another 6' section to it, and kept stuffing those 6' lengths in there until I hit a roadblock - then I made my transition to flexible hose to get through the winding part of the route. I realize that’s not the same scenario you are facing, but just sharing some ideas for “next time”.

You can do it; you just have to spend some time eyeballing where you want to run the hose and don’t be afraid to get out a hole saw and make a new hole through a bulkhead to pass a hose through - just don’t get too close to the edge/tabbing. I didn’t use a sawzall - I’m not that brave yet! You will also need patience (a lot of that), Advil, soap, band-aids, and Neosporin. And at the end of the project, you will have earned a medal.

A ten year old boy is a great asset to any Hatteras tool box. That’s how I got the washer/nuts on the back side of my rub rail.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Hey Ange... a single word comes to mind when I picture you doing that job... ELOQUENCE. I pulled out all 3 of the GM heads, including the hoses, pumps, and electrical up to the breakers, but was lucky that none of the hose runs were more than about 5 feet from point A to point B.
I do need to make a waste run from the aft master to the FWD tank as well and will use PVC also. The Atlantes thats back there macerates on site and will need a decent pitch to make it all the way forward. Thats 4 bulkheads and the galley base cabinet. Oh what fun... !! ws

 

[Bill Root]

Ang/Bill:

Great suggestions and even better...great moral support.

Ang: what size pvc pipe did you use, and was it the white hard stuff or the grey flexible stuff. All the water supply lines in my boat are the grey stuff with the compression fittings. Also, what method did you use to attach the PVC sections to the hose?

 

[yachtsmanbill]

That should be 1-1/2 pvc glued at the joints. Get the glue on hose couplers too, but take a sample with you... that white sealand hose really blows to try and get it on a hose barb. Make sure the barb is the right size for the hose. You may have to get the SL hose barb with the hose and plumb it together.
Ive heated that hose to get it on and once its home it stays there so make sure its where it needs to go!

I used pool vacuum hose for the hole system with one exception. The line from the diaphragm pump to the seacock is a PRESSURE line and sure didnt want a blow out! I changed that to pvc as well with a hose coupling at the pump end. The run from the toilet to the tank is about 2 feet and the Atlantes is very low pressure off its integral macerator and it hasnt leaked a drop in 4 years.

Nifty upgrade for peace of mind! ws

 

[Bill Root]

Great suggestion, Bill. The point where the hose split is where it makes a sharp 180 degree turn to attach to the fitting on the seacock. Under pressure, the water has probably been hitting that bend pretty hard. No wonder the hose split.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Barring the reaching aspect, cant you trim the hose and extend a 90 off the seacock? Its all pipe thread... ws

 

[SKYCHENEY]

BR,
As has been stated, the original hoses have cushion clamps on them every 12 inches or so. You cannot just pull the hose out. I replaced all of my waste hoses and one of them ran through a space that was completely inaccessible.

The hose that ran through the generator room actually ran beneath the battery boxes. This space was completely covered by glassed in plywood so I just cut the hose off at each end and blew it out. I then ran a new hose through the gen room behind the battery boxes where I could get to it.

My point is that you will probably end up finding some new way to route the hose if you can't get to it to get the old one out.

Good luck. Its not an easy job.

 

[sandspur1966]

I just had my 58 replumbed both on the fresh water side and the black water including new heads.

All the advice here is great in the abstract but hampered by the fact that no one is looking your problem in the face or at least has done the same job on the same model.

My 2 bits is get to either Roger W or Bruce Morrison and ask them. they have an encyclopedic knowledge of every hatter as made and am sure they can offer the best advice on routing new or replacing in kind your current hose.

Watching Bruce work on my boat is a real humbling experience. I am a former professional manager who has owned several hats and a shipyard and boy is there knowledge amazing. For instance when running new waste hose from my midships head forward I would have just pulled as much decking apart as possible and made a huge mess getting access. Bruce bought some PVC pipe and knowing the stringer and bulkhead configuration from memory, inserted the pipe through the compartment. Once done the hose slipped through the pipe slick as a greased pig and since it is sitting inside the pipe, has no low spots for $&/t to remain in.

The difference between solid basic skills (me) and intimate knowledge of the vessel construction (him) is amazing and worth every penny.

 

[Bill Root]

Don't know about a splice until I can get down onto the floor in front of the engine to look into the compartment where the seacocks are. I have to pull the coolant tank and heat exchanger in order to make a space big enough to get in there. I'm waiting for my son to come back from Atlanta next weekend to help with that. I might get in there but I would never get out. What a pain!

 

[Bill Root]

Sandspur:

Thanks very much for your perspective. I know both Roger and Bruce. I met Roger when I had some work done on my 43 at Jarrett Bay two years ago. I met Bruce on the dock in Key West a year ago January. He did an informal inspection for me on a boat in Virginia I was thinking of buying before I bought BUFFALO GAL. I wish he was closer to me (Florida). I think I'll give him a call anyway. I will be attending the workshop in April, but really don't want to wait that long to fix this problem.