Frozen Elbow Stuck Turbo

[Briankinley2004]

Did a sea trial this weekend after replacing cutless bearings, shaft log hoses, etc. Piddled around with stuffing box temps, fished a little then decided to turn her up to see if there were any vibrations. Pushed the throttles up and was happy no vibrations but I noticed the port engine was only turning 1700 RPM. Looked back and black smoke pouring out of port side. So we went home at the same 1000 RPMs we went out at. I suspected a stuck turbo because I had not turned the engines up since last summer. The last trip or two I took I didn't run them up long because the vibration from the cutless bearings and then she sat for six months while I repaired the house from the hurricane damage. Took the airsep off yesterday and sure enough I could barely turn the port outside turbo.

Was going to try and clean it in place but could not get the exhaust elbow to budge even after soaking 24 hours with Kroil and applying some heat with a propane torch. I removed the entire turbo with elbow attached and took to the garage. I fogged a bunch of brake cleaner down through the exhaust elbow and the turbo spun freely but after sitting a while it would turn but was difficult. I would like to get the elbow off but I know how they can be hard to get to seal. I was looking at the turbo and noticed some pairs of bolts with plates that appear to hold the two sections together. I began to wonder if I removed the bolts would the exhaust fins come out so that I could clean them.

Does anyone know if I am opening pandoras box by removing these bolts to try to clean or would this be a typical procedure? Are there gaskets behind those plates? I don't want to tear into something that will be a mess to reassemble but this looks like a pathway to getting to the exhaust end of the turbo.

 

[Captain Ralph]

You are beyond saving the turbo chunk (spindle and bearings) to make them spin freely. Once fracked, they are fracked.

You are going to have to replace the chunk or whole turbo.
The dump can is held on by a V clamp. The dump can should fall off without that V clamp.

The bolts in the picture do come out to release the chunk from the exhaust housing. If this housing looks poor (normal outcome) the whole turbo needs replacement.

Sorry I can not offer a cost reduced fix, once a turbo is fracked, there is no DIY or snake oil to fix it.

 

[Briankinley2004]

Where can you get the chunk? Turbo is only 5 years old and housing looks good on outside. I guess I will open it up to see what inside looks like.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Where can you get the chunk? Turbo is only 5 years old and housing looks good on outside. I guess I will open it up to see what inside looks like.

Any real DDC shop or turbo shop will offer the chunk. Just offer the part number on the turbo tag.
Also, I have read about blueprinted, whole performance turbos were the whole turbo is fit and matched beyond factory tolerances. Some reports are it's better, some report SSDD.
I fear those that report better performance is just trying to cover their extra expense rather than fact.

 

[Avenger]

Yes, the clamps hold the exhaust housing onto the center housing, and if you can't get the elbow off you can try to pull the turbine housing off to see what's up. They are usually just as challenging as the elbow to separate.

Chances are your exhaust elbow is leaking and seawater has corroded the exhaust housing which is catching the turbine vanes and making it stick. If that's the case you'll need to replace the elbow and exhaust housing.

If you do go to a turbo rebuilder, the center housing assembly is called a cartridge, or CHRA Center Housing Rotating Assembly. If you call it a chunk they won't know what you're talking about.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Geographical vocabulary; English be hard.

Avenger is correct on the more correct term for that turbo center piece.
I probably should check myself better using terms from my area, when typing to other geographical distant HOF members.
It is interesting though, many, many moons ago, this assembly was referred to me as a chunk at a DD parts counter.
I have been using that term since.
When I talked to local Cat, DD & VP folk, they understood what I was talking about also.

Here in the swamps, some school graduates may confuse a cartridge with a bullet so we try to keep conversations simple and calm.

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[Avenger]

Didn't mean any offense. Local colloquialism may be a thing. I've been rebuilding turbochargers for a few decades and never heard of such a reference. But hey, keep your powder dry.

If @Briankinley2004 can post a part number for his turbo we can see what pieces are available.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Didn't mean any offense. Local colloquialism may be a thing. I've been rebuilding turbochargers for a few decades and never heard of such a reference. But hey, keep your powder dry.

All good here brother.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I've never heard it referred to as a "chunk" either, only cartridge. And I've been in the trucking business all of my life with in-house mechanics rebuilding diesels. I used to do the parts run as a kid. But, I never lived in the Florida swamps either.

 

[Briankinley2004]

Turbo is GT1109. I found out that the elbow is supposed to be copper nickel. A friend of mine is friends with a Detroit guru up in Virginia. He said I should clean it and it is gummed up from lack of starting the engine. I was in the yard for 3 months before I ran her and he didn't know that. He said to start 2-3 times a month and be sure to run up to 1000 RPM for a few minutes. I have religiously started them weekly when she is in the water but I just let them idle. Anyway based on the advice of a certified DD mechanic who many of you that are in Facebook groups have probably heard of I am going to try cleaning up if I can ever get this elbow off. If not I am gonna "chunk" it and rebuild or get another.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I seriously doubt a clean up will cure it.

 

[Avenger]

GT1109 is a model number, but unfortunately is not specific enough. There should be a part number on the tag too. Either a DD number or the turbo manufacturer's number. You can jump off that bridge when you get to it. Get the elbow off first and see what you've got.

 

[Briankinley2004]

GT1109 is a model number, but unfortunately is not specific enough. There should be a part number on the tag too. Either a DD number or the turbo manufacturer's number. You can jump off that bridge when you get to it. Get the elbow off first and see what you've got.

Thanks. There is a serial number on the tag. Is that what is needed? Those are the only two numbers I see

 

[Avenger]

If it's actually a serial number it won't help, but put it up and we'll see what it lloks like. It may be a part number and just in the wrong place.

 

[Briankinley2004]

There is is. Tried taking the thing in half and the bolt by the oil return won't budge and can only get an open end on it. Trying to strip. Been soaking in kroil all week and banging on it. Heating with propane and no luck. Bout ready to take it somewhere

 

[Avenger]

Sigh.

That's not an OEM tag, and you're right. It doesn't have a part number. Maybe the turbo on the other engine does.

You could try bolting it back on the manifold. It's a much better holder than chasing it all over a workbench.

 

[Captain Ralph]

May have to call up your shop with your serial number for the factory part number.

 

[Briankinley2004]

May have to call up your shop with your serial number for the factory part number.

I got aggravated today and called Evergreen Turbo in Ocala. Supposed to be the best around here. The guy basically said same as yall that those numbers are no good and there should be a part number where it says assembly number. Anyway he said there were two things it could be. Either it was carbon on the fins causing it to stick or rust from sitting that works its way to the bearings. He said with the elbow off he can look and tell what the issue was. I told him I would bring it to him and he replied "you have to get that elbow off first. I dont take them like that". He suggested alot of heat with oxygen and acetylene. Right now I had a wild hair and put it in the freezer overnight. Thinking I might can put the torch on it while it is frozen and make it move. If not I might just put it back on the manifold and whack it. Only issue is this copper nickel is soft and I have already put some small dents in the elbow

 

[Briankinley2004]

Well the freezer trick didn't work even heating it right out of freezer. A guy on the Facebook forum suggested using a putty knife as a wedge. I was skeptical as I was afraid of damaging the surface. I tapped a 13 in 1 putty knife and it seemed it made a small crack but I was concerned it was damage to the metal so I stopped but kept putting home made Kroil in the groove. This morning I said a prayer over the thing then started heating it with my small torch until I ran out of oxygen. I was thinking I should find a rosebud torch. I went and got a cup of ice water and poured on it then saturated it in the kroil solution. Started pecking the putty knife it the spot and it began to separate. I worked the knife all the way around then a couple whacks with a 13# hammer on the flange and the thing fell off. It appears to me it is carboned up. The elbow seems to be ok. The brake cleaner wouldn't cut the thick carbon. I guess I will take it to Evergreen to see if he can get it to work

 

[Avenger]

I can pretty much guarantee you that elbow has failed. Look at the pitting inside it. And the exhaust housing is chunked up with rust scale.

Find a shop or a friend that has blasting equipment to confirm, but I'd bet money that once you get that turbine housing descaled you'll have an eighth of an inch clearance between the turbine and the housing. Spec is usually maximum .040".

I've rebuilt a lot of turbochargers in my career and I've never seen one fail from sooting, or not using a "cleaner" on the intake.