former member needs help

[67hat34c]

I talked to the bird today. he is now saying he has to move Freebird from Palmeto fl(tampa area) to TN, his insurance co will now insure it in fl. the marina where it is gave him until sunday to get the boat out. No all of you know what the problems are. He has one engine that has not been checked out very well, the boat needs to be made safe for the trip and also needs crew to volunteer. I cant go but am willing to go over this weekend to help.

I think he needs some of you seasoned vets to help him out, some of you may not like him or agree with him but he is a good guy and I sure do not want to see him get in any more trouble with this thing or get hurt etc.

I think he needs one of you that know these detroits to give him a hand making the one engine seaworthy, maybe someone can lend him a life raft for the trip, go through safety stuff and at least travel with him from palmetto to tarpon springs for the shake down part of the trip.

anyone interested can call me or if you know how to call the bird call him . I dont want to post his cell # here but have no problem posting mine. so lets give a brother a helping hand.


Thanks

Steve Hierholzer
407 928 5173

By the way Randy did not ask me to do this nor did I tell him. He may be proud but he also knows how to eat crow.

 

[Boatsb]

I was there with him last night helping remove a stubborn AC pump so he can get a replacement. He had a mechanic by earlier and I assumed he checked the boat out for Randy. I found out today he looked around and did nothing.

The motor starts. The impeller should be changed but he cant find anyone to do that yet. The boat is mostly ready to go except for the Air conditioner pump and comforts.

If I knew the mechanic did nothing I would have stayed longer and tried to do it my self but thats hindsight.

Randy can not make Alabama in time for his insurance so I am recommending he move it further north to a slip he may have access to a few hours away. That should provide a good shake down for the vessel and those on board. I can not help until next week but he has to be moving before then. If anyone can help with the trip Saturday or Sunday it would really be a good thing.

 

[Passages]

Could a professional captain be hired for part of the trip? The typical per diem is $150-250 plus expenses.

The other option is to put the boat on land - if insurance will allow it.

I hate to say it, but this is exactly the scenario which leads to damage and injury on the water. Folks compelled to take to the sea in boats in less than seaworthy condition (1 engine out), short handed, limited familarity with the waters and the cumulative stress on the skipper.

It's a dangerous mix and I really don't want to see anyone get hurt.

 

[Boatsb]

already looked at putting her on the hard. No go with the insurance company. Only $580/week Yes per week from the yard.

Hiring a captain or even crew is an option but try to find a willing crew. Not easy for this voyage.

I think we need to convince him it is safer to leave the boat at a safe dock while the engine is repaired than attempt to run her home on one wing. Either way he will be without insurance in a few days so why not be uninsured tied to a dock not out at sea.

 

[nor'easter]

already looked at putting her on the hard. No go with the insurance company. Only $580/week Yes per week from the yard.

Hiring a captain or even crew is an option but try to find a willing crew. Not easy for this voyage.

I think we need to convince him it is safer to leave the boat at a safe dock while the engine is repaired than attempt to run her home on one wing. Either way he will be without insurance in a few days so why not be uninsured tied to a dock not out at sea.

I think that is a sound idea!
Having a main down in a boat you know that is otherwise mechanically reliable is one thing. This sounds like a different thing and would go the conservative path.

 

[Genesis]

I'll tell you what I'd do in this situation.

I'd get in the damn thing and get outta there. Right now.

He's gotta go through at Marathon because if I'm right the lake level is too low to go through, besides, you don't want to do that alone.

Now with that said, I'd make sure I have an EPIRB on board at a bare minimum, and a nice Type 1 vest sitting next to me the whole way. And I'd go through whatever I can to insure that the pumps work and that the working engine is ok.

We're talking displacement speeds here with only one engine up, and you have to lock the other shaft. But - there's nothing particularly wrong with running a boat with one engine - an awful lot of very long-range cruising boats only have one engine.

Docking is going to be fun but not something that can't be handled.

How's 'yer seamanship and boat-handling?

All the options suck. This one appears to suck the least. You got a decent weather window right now as there is no tropical activity going on at present; a situation which probably will not persist. With one engine you're running at 8-9kts max, so if you DO get trapped, you're screwed.

So get the hell out of there while the risk is within reasonable boundaries. The trick here is to get out of the SE side of the state as "first risk" is on that side of the state, at least right now.

The only other option IMHO is to go up on the hard; if that has been eliminated you do nothing good via delay.

 

[nor'easter]

My comments were based on my perception of the seaworthiness/readiness of the other main engine. Is the fuel tank a mess, as i remember this boat having a thread about its maiden voyage and fuel issues?
The other issue is running the boat on one engine, and the skipper's experience doing that. Open water, no problem. But close quarters and possibly once in the river system might be tough, depending on currents, etc(never been there, don't know). Add to that a short handed crew unfamiliar with the boat, and the need to rush along, and I would get uncomfortable.
I am lucky to not have the hurricane concern here in So Cal, so it might be hard for me to grasp the gravity of the situation. Going NOW may still be the right thing. Just my .02

 

[67hat34c]

I talked to randy tonight, the prop is comming off of the dead shaft so it will not need to locked. I am going to help him move it from palmetto tomorrow or sunday, we are only going 20miles and headed to a private dock for an unknown length of stay. i believe at that point the boat will be made seaworthy for the trip on one motor or it will be sold. there are some tire kickers out there.

we will be running the icw so i believe she will be safe for that short trip. I will give it a going over before we go out not that i am any kind of expert or even know what i am looking at but will look for hose fittings, hose condition. pumps shaft logs etc etc.

Fuel tanks are low but fuel is very old. guessing we will need to add some biocide and have plenty of filters. will make sure that those are available.

I know absulutely nothing about the detroit 1271 n's that are in there. Randy and scott got the working engine started but that is all I know. believe we are going to run this trip on the existing water pump impellor but it will be changed before the big trip.


Will mention to him regarding renting an Epirb for the crossing if and when he does it. also if someone could lend a life or survival raft that would be good also.

 

[Jaxfishgyd]

This has all the makings of beating his "Trip from Hell" write up.

Hopefully this trip will go better for him. Can't wait for the details.

We could start a pool on different things that can/will go wrong !

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Why has the engine not been repaired yet? This problem was reported here months ago. I can't see anyone buying it or moving it without that engine being made operable. I sounds like a big problem to me that has been brewing for a long time. Just fix it correctly and then the options are greatly improved as is the safety of all involved. Don't take any unnecessary risks.

 

[Passages]

Damn it Randy - Change that impeller NOW!

You don't know how old or brittle it is and if it busts up underway and pieces get stuck down stream, you risk an overheat at what could be a most inopportune time.

 

[67hat34c]

Randy ran out of money for this project and his pesonal life was in limbo, believe things have improved for him however. he as been trying to sell her as is.

If he can find someone who will committ to rebuild the motor and do quality work then i believe he will committ to fix the engine that is bad. in fact if he has to go to TN i believe he is planning on stopping at a Hatteras dealer in AL and they may do the rebuild. The heads are done, he had them done in a shop in orlando. believe they are still sitting in the shop as they are allowing him to store them there.

Any of you know someone who can do his work, between tampa FL and Alabama? Genesis do you know anyone? if so any chance his boat can be docked at you place for a short time? Just thinking out loud.

He is showing the boat today so who knows. I am waiting for his call to move it today , take me about 2 hrs to get there and the trip with no problems should only take a few hours

 

[67hat34c]

can one of you describe how to change impellor in his motors. Randy cant find anyone to do it before tomorrow, he is not confident to do it him self. I did say we can pull apart the pump on the dead motor and see if we can do it. We dont have a puller for the impellor however.

Because i cant stay on line to see the replies, if someone can call me regarding this or call randy

thanks steve Hierholzer 407 928 5173

 

[Passages]

I assume changing a 12-71 impeller is similar to my old 6-71 so here goes.

1) Find the raw water pump. Follow the intake line until you get to a circular drum shaped appendage attached to the rear of the engine. It will have a flat circular plate held on by 5 bolts.

2) Remove the 5 bolts and the cover plate.

3) Inside you should see the impeller. With 2 screw drivers placed on opposite sides of the impeller hup, apply equal leverage to work the old impeller out. West Marine sells an impeller removal tool for $80. Makes the job a snap.

4) Scrape off all pieces of the old gasket. Clean any crud from the pump interior.

5) Apply grease or never-seize to the inner hub.

6) Apply liquid soap to the new impeller vanes

7) Use 3 tie wraps to compress the vanes. Begin inserting the impeller in the pump, progressively cutting the tie wraps as you go.

8) When flush, Clean the face place, align the new gasket that came with the new impeller and reassemble.

9) Start engine, check for leaks.


Side note - hope that the old impeller is whole upon removal. If it's missing vanes, you must retrieve them. Also, the pump cover plate is often scored from use. I like to have it machined flat but you don't have time for that. Alternately, you can flip it over and use the other side if needed.

PS- I'll give you a call on this.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Good luck to you guys, and I hope you are able to make it with a safe trip. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

 

[Starman]

I have been quite busy lately and have not posted much.

So this is somewhat late.

I had the pleasure to meet Randy and Michelle and they are good/decent freindly folks and I wish them all the best in everything they do.

He was speaking of this trip and I feel sure he will make all the right decisions.

Wish I could help you Randy, but you know how busy I am here at the marina.

 

[67hat34c]

My brother and i got there late yesterday afternoon. we worked on getting the motor ready. cleanedout Racor, opened up the waterpump. gave half hearted effort to pull impellor, would not move with screw drivers. the rubber looked good, all fluked ere in shape and no apparent cracking so we closed it up. got the motor fired and it runs fine. the gen cranked after we repaced cable from the battery switch to the starter. first time it ran in a year. we emptied some trash and got it unpluged. randy made one last call to the home owner who was going to let him use his dock. the home owner said he did not expect him until sunday but either way he was no longer agreeing to the use of the dock. he said he called his insurance agent on friday who advised him that the liability is too high. Randy did not loose his cool, he explained that he has a 1mm liability policy but that did not sway the home owner. so we canceled the trip. Randy has to be out by sunday as the slip owner(condo slips) was returning on monday. We made some calls and Randy made some calls last night and this AM . He found another place to go further north in Clearwater. I could not make it over today but Randy picked up my brother on the way. Last i talked to them was at about 2pm and they were getting prepped. they were goint to pull to fuel dock fuel up and pump out waste tank and give it another try. I am getting ready to call them and see how it is going.

I looked at Freebird. she is a grand boat and in good shape. outside does not realy need much. inside it in the need of refinishing work, no leaks and no rot. former owner covered most of the wood with vinyl, wall paper and mirror type plastic. basicaly it use to look like a cheep disco. Randy ripped out all the crap for the most part, much of the wood is covered with glue that will come off. the forward cabin is original and nice. galley on back needs refinishing. Of course the starboard engine is opened up. heads off and top end off, blowers etc. you know the cylinders look fine, not torn up. but randy tells me there was oil comming from exhaust. Mechanic said it was most likely rings. He said the engine never ran out of oil , did pump a few into the bildge however. oil still there.

Told randy that before any long trip, all oil needs to come out. blige pumps need to be fixed, impellor in starboard motor pulled and replaced, and that engine checked out. I said i would help with engine room clean up and pumps, mechanic will have to service the motor. also he has a very large 110v water pump that services all 5 ac units. motor is shot and must be replaced, she gets a little hot down there.

Guys she is a boat that someone could make grand again and i do not believe it would be all that involved at least on the surface. Was surprised how well the window frames looked and clean the exterior is. he says the bottom is solid with no issues. a diver removed the prop from the dead motor and it is sitting in the rear saloon area it also looks good.

 

[67hat34c]

update.

they are under way, passing eggmont key as we speak. the one thing i though of checking and forgot was the steering. since he has one motor steering system is more criticle than ever. well the upper station is not working but lower helm is fine. electronics are on upper, engine gauges on bridge also are the only ones that work properly. My brother is steering her from below, randy on the bridge monitoring speed and engine status etc.

Making a list of stuff to check is a must, you will always forget some stuff. Randy said he did check the steering but from lower station and it worked, he did not think it needed to be checked from both.

Wonder if the thing has completely independent stations or does each wheel have its own pump that connects to one steering ram. Any ideas?

 

[Pascal]

if he has hynautics, he needs to check te gauge on the reservoir. should be in the ER. if pressure is low, upper helm will not work. it's likely to be just a matter of pumping it back up to about 20PSI (fitting on the reservoir) then turnign the upper helm till it re primes.

of course, he needs to check the level as well (sight gauge on reservoir). hynautic fluid (or MIL equivalent) is needed but in a pinch he can use ATF, although steering efforts will be higher

 

[yachtsmanbill]

The Hynautic reservoir is inside the lower helm on the 58 TC. Its a breeze to check. I inspected both of my impellers too, and left them on for a 1500 mile trip. The 12s are "nestled" between the hydraulic pump and air compressor and cant be got with out the puller. It was suggested to me to pull the pump off and service it on the floor. You just need to pull the mount and flange bolts and it lifts off. I have a new complete spare pump if it came to that. The pic shows the RW pump with the hydraulic pump removed for a tach drive job.
FB called me the other day and we STS for a half hour about his trip. I think theyll be OK as long as they resign themselves to the fact that they wont break any sound barriers. I told him to run the one main at 14-1500 and be prepared to see disappointing performance numbers. The one prop being off will help immensely.
I hope he inspected the sea strainer; thats paramount. AND I hope he got a
BUNCH OF FILTERS !!! ws