First Impressions on our new Analytic Systems charger....ugh!

[egaito]

Well, it worked great the first day! But unfortunately, after about a day of service, it has failed. Angela noticed the DC lights dimming and checked the voltage at the helm to find it low. She then checked the charger to find it dark, and extremely hot to the touch. Tried letting it cool down and restarting it, but it's still dark (all indicator lights off).

I checked it yesterday, after it ran overnight, and it was happily maintaining both banks.

Analytic Systems is happy to take a look at it if we ship it back at our expense ($130 for 3 day). They will try to do so faster than their normal 10-day turn around since it's so new.

Looks like we're without a charger for at least 10 days. I guess the port engine will get a a daily workout for awhile to keep the house bank topped off.

So much for getting out of the slip this weekend.

 

[Canuck Dennis]

I assume you checked the output initially as it does have an adjust for voltage output.

 

[egaito]

I assume you checked the output initially as it does have an adjust for voltage output.

Well, we all know what "assume" means, right?

The documentation states that it is set for normal lead acid batteries, and adjustable for other types. As mentioned in the post, I did check it the next morning. One bank was showing 36.0, the other 36.3.

Regardless, I'm not sure how that fine adjustment could/would/should trash the charger, which presumably has protective circuitry in it.

 

[davidwigler]

Darn. I have a 10 amp 32 volt charger I could overnight to you for a backup if you like. It's a two stage. It installed yet.

 

[Jaxfishgyd]

That totally sucks...
Does kinda make me feel a "little better" as I've had that kind of luck on newly installed equipment...
(not the inverter though...yet)

 

[Boatsb]

Gameboy back where you got it and have then give you another. New and burned up is not acceptable.acceptable

 

[egaito]

A quick update for those that are following:

The charger will ship today, $130 for 3-day shipping to Canada.

They do not have any 32v chargers in stock, in either 115v or 220v.

Apparently they are in the middle of a large production run to fill an order, so cannot even build one for some time, so the best option is to repair ours. If it's not repairable, I guess we're S.O.L. until they get their orders filled.

So far, they have been communicative, have demonstrated concern over the product failure and a desire to make it right.

On the down side, it does not appear that they have the internal polcies/proceedures to support customers that rely on their products. IMHO, if you sell something as critical as a charger for a boat, you should have a few on the shelf to help customers left stranded.

It would also have been a nice courtesy to ship it in for repair on their shipping account instead of our wallet.

To be told that new orders come before existing customers isn't what you want to hear when you're having a problem....even if it is the ugly truth.

It does not appear that the unit can be fixed and returned before I leave town which may leave us having to hire an installer.

I'm not sure which manufacturers actually keep 32v product on the shelf, but were I to do this over, I would consider this a factor in product selection. Battery chargers are relatively simple and generally trouble-free devices, but when they go bad, and you need one, you really need one!

I'll report back on how quickly it is fixed and returned.

 

[Canuck Dennis]

When I went to the plant to pick mine up after repair, the technician stated that there were way too many "sub standard" parts in the unit and they had to do a major rebuild, now, I wonder where those bad parts came from ? your guess is as good as mine. I would think they have learned from that experience but maybe the bean counters are running the show.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

This is why I have both the Analytic charger and the Outback. I use the Analytic 95% of the time and only run the Outback charger when on the hook and running the genset. The Outback will output 75amps at 32v so my charge time is much faster.

But, the point is, I have a backup. If I had to send in the Analytic at least I would have a charger to use until it came back.

Sorry to hear of your troubles, Ed. Hopefully it will serve you well once you finally get it back.

 

[Angela]

Sky, I like your well thought out plan. Maybe we should reconsider the plan to have a 24v inverter bank and go for the Outback 32v system instead so that we have that critical redundancy too. To find a 2-stage/3-stage 32v charger....our choices were quite slim. As I recall, it came down to either Analytic or Newmar. The Sentry, Charles, and others we researched would keep a trickle charge running and we didn't want that on the starting bank that doesn't have the same needs as the house side. It's my starting bank that gets cooked with the trickle-kind of chargers. I'm not going to engage in the argument of right or wrong of trickle charging, but Sky's set up has gotten my attention now that I've have the experience we've just had.

 

[egaito]

As reliable as they have been for me over the years, I've never considered redundant charging, but it certainly makes a lot of sense now!

 

[davidwigler]

I do think you might be happier with the 32 volt Outback because it will enable you to keep a charge from the alternator(s) while underway. 8 Volt GC batteries are readily available from Crown, US and Trojan, as well as Sams (Energizer); and eight of them will fit in the original Hatteras battery boxes.

We already have four voltages to keep track of....

 

[Pascal]

That is not what i would called good customer service, this thing was basically DOA

Battery chargers are often overlooked on the redundancy list and while you can charge with running one of the mains it is an issue especially on charter where you can't ask the guests to turn off some lights . This happened to us twice on Charmer and the second time around i ended up rigging the inverter and its bank to serve as house bank. A little challenging when the banks are 40' apart and you are on block island having to use whatever is on board...

If it comes in after you leave, I ll put it back in for you, don't worry.

 

[GJH]

Angela, the Sentry does not trickle charge; it turns off completely. When on it doles out charge amperage a la Karl Marx: to each bank according to its need. Mine was misfunctioning when I got the boat, just a little that required frequent watering of the batteries. I was ready to float test it when Steve Pooler (RIP) and my local tech set me straight. Way out of warranty, the cost to fix good as new was less than $400 including skilled labor.

I consider my alternators (remember those?) the back-up to my charger. Plus I have a US made charger that is field repairable by a fairly large network of techs, so unless I am out in the boondocks, help and parts are close at hand.

Ed, I'd agree with you not having a new service exchange available for warranty is bush league. I deal with a lot of electronics manufacturers and having back up stock and/or parts is SOP. I'd ask for a refund and go buy a US made NewMar, who has a great customer service rep, if you are set on having a "smart" charger.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

The biggest Newmar 32v charger made is only 10 amp. They show larger chargers in their catalog but will not produce them due to lack of demand.

The options are limited. That is part of why Analytic can operate the way they do.

 

[GJH]

Sky, the NewMar is 25 amps. I talked to them and was on the verge of buying one before I got straightened out on my Sentry. Cost about $500 less than an Outback inverter, but does multiple banks and an easy switch out from OEM.

http://www.newmarpower.com/Phase_Three_White/Phase_Three_W.html

 

[Canuck Dennis]

I emailed Analytic and expressed my disappointment in their warranty response timing, he is the email.



Bill Walker billw@analyticsystems.com
5:32 PM (29 minutes ago)

to me, Ken, Bruce
Mr. McMurtry,
We certainly appreciate your recommendations and thank you for your comments.

We are aware of one disgruntled customer only, but I do not recognize the issue as with DC chargers but DC/DC converters.
From our US Sales Manager:
Tom Chamberlain, Owner of Coral Reef Electronics. This guy purchased VTC’s from DJ Systems that weren’t conformal coated and then had failures due to corrosion. Attached my last email to him )REF: Your phone message mentioned RMA 12030, that was a VTC305-12-24 that was corroded so badly it was not worth repairing; when I discussed this with you, you had OK'd scrapping the unit. As to the reliability of our converters, if I recall correctly the major issue your customer faced had to do with his installation (through the Blue Sea fuse block) and once that was bypassed there were no problems - is that correct? I don't want to downplay real issues, but has there been more problems like that? Tom, I want to ensure your confidence in our product, so if you are experiencing failures we will address them with you. That is why all the repairs we've done so far have included addition of conformal coating for marine use - we don't want to see you facing the same issues with a repaired product! I know you're facing the heat of some unhappy boaters, and I want to help you as much as possible to resolve those issues when they pop up). We replaced his repairable VTC605 with a unit at Case Lot price. Last time I spoke with him was after the attached email – everything was good at that time and he was happy with the service. Haven’t heard from him since...


DJ Systems declined to stay as a reseller because we would not offer him distributor pricing after his sales dropped from over $50K/year to less than $5K, he really only wanted to buy cheap Asian products anyway so we replaced him with a much better distributor.

We have a less than 0.1% return / repair rate with some of the most respected users in the world (mostly Canadian and US military). We intend to maintain that with even the smallest user.

Again we appreciate your good recommendations and we look forward to offering those US marine customers with a whole new line of products including intelligent chargers in 2013.

Regards,
Bill Walker
Vice President, Sales & Marketing

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Sky, the NewMar is 25 amps. I talked to them and was on the verge of buying one before I got straightened out on my Sentry. Cost about $500 less than an Outback inverter, but does multiple banks and an easy switch out from OEM.

http://www.newmarpower.com/Phase_Three_White/Phase_Three_W.html

George,
I see they finally updated their website. But, why not spend the extra $500 and get something with the inverter function? The Outback also has 3 times the charging output of the Newmar.

 

[Canuck Dennis]

I would suggest Angela email this guy and point out her disappointing experience and any one else on the forum who feels the Company needs a reminder...

 

[GJH]

George,
I see they finally updated their website. But, why not spend the extra $500 and get something with the inverter function? The Outback also has 3 times the charging output of the Newmar.

Because at least in my case I wanted something that easily charges two different banks. And I already had a dedicated inverter. Down the road if we get back into the full time cruising and mooring/anchoring mode again, I have considered putting an Outback in the starboard ER to power sections of a panel in there from that bank that is not currently served by by an inverter (bringing the wires to my present inverter panel was going to be too much ha$$le. I'd have to replace the 8v195's in there with the deep cycle Rolls like I have on the other, house, bank. Or, I may just opt for a second "night" generator that is modern and very quiet, which sometimes I think is what I should have done n the first place.

I am not saying my approach is particularly "right", that is, the separate inverter bank but I leaned towards dedicated purpose-built systems when I was outfitting the boat for our style of cruising. One significant flaw that I haven't addressed yet is that the inverter bank (24v) is not charged by an alternator. A 32v inverter running off one of the main banks obviously doesn't have that problem, a big advantage of that approach. That is the first thing I will get to if/when we head out again, though I have gotten away with it for 5 years, it puts a lot of pressure on the genset. Right now our 20 year old genset with over 5000 hours is a single point of failure in the AC system when away from the dock. If I go with the second genset, then this moves down The List, I think. I really went around in circles looking at all possible approaches, and that just happens to be where I ended up, for better and/or worse.