Fan motor for Salon air handler

[Captned]

Howdy all! One of the two fans in my salon air handler just crapped out. Does anybody know where I can get a replacement? I have contacted sams and sent them an email. Anybody else had the pleasure of doing this before? Thanks in advance...

captned

 

[Captned]

Here's a pic...

 

[spcoolin]

Ed~

Though you don't say what size that Air handler is...or your model Hatt...

I can tell from your picture it is either from a Cruisair EFL-12 or 16 or it's from a EFB model that is smaller than that...

Is there two of those assemblies on the back, or just the one ?
If there are two...It will be a EFL model...If One it will be an EFB model...

Is there more than one air handler for the salon ?...If so then it's an EFB that is smaller than 12 or 16K and this one runs off a individual fan speed control that is slave to the main control No ?

The part Cruisair part # for the small motor is A-120 for 115 volt and A121 for 230 volt...Thing is, I had to go back to a 2003 price book to get that part # and back then it was $120.00....

I can tell you that it no longer shows on the Dometic master inventory, and those EFB/EFL air handlers have been discontinued for over 10 years now.

You may have luck matching something up from WWW Grainger, but your only other options are to locate a used one, or install a new air handler...Which you would be much happier with for sound & air flow...Those old blow thru air handlers never really performed very well & were noisy too...

Steve~

 

[spcoolin]

One more thing...Please don't run the system without both fan motors operational...

You will cause Icing, and liquid refrigerant flood back to the compressor...

Which will then take out the compressor valve plate and cause it to not pump...or not pump well...

Steve~

 

[Captned]

Wow! Thanks for the info Steve! There are two fans behind the handler. The boat is a 1978 Hatteras 46 SF. There is only one air handler in the salon. I wonder if a starter shop could rebuild it if I cant find one??

 

[spcoolin]

Starter shops don't usually have the equipment to re-wind an AC voltage motor and most AC motor shops won't even look at something that small...1/2 hp is usually the low end of what most will mess with.

As I said Grainger will be your best bet, though they will only have the motor that might fit, and not the cage or fan blade...Funny the fan blades do still show in the Cruisair parts book but not the motors..Guess they had an overstock of those and if you will notice...One of yours is 3 blade & the other is 4 blade...This was to cut down on the droan sound you might get...Like when your engines are out of sync...

Make sure you sand & lubricate that shaft well before trying to remove the fan blade...They will stick on any rust and then you bend the whole thing up trying to get it to budge....

I still say you would be much happier with a newer style air handler with a squirrel cage....They move much more air, and you can put a filter on them...Yours is likely very plugged up in the back by now unless it has been washed recently...

Steve~

 

[rsmith]

Wow! Thanks for the info Steve! There are two fans behind the handler. The boat is a 1978 Hatteras 46 SF. There is only one air handler in the salon. I wonder if a starter shop could rebuild it if I cant find one??

Starters are DC you need to find an ac motor shop. I got a couple that were close from WWGrainger. but you need to have a company account to buy from them. One downside is mine were 3 speed motors and I ended up with 1 speed.

 

[Captned]

Hey Robert, did you get one of the Grainger motors to work???

 

[Captned]

Thanks Steve... Would a squirrel cage blower unit fit in the hole I have now? It's about 1 1/2' by 1 1/2' by 2 1/2'....

 

[spcoolin]

Starters are DC you need to find an ac motor shop. I got a couple that were close from WWGrainger. but you need to have a company account to buy from them. One downside is mine were 3 speed motors and I ended up with 1 speed.

Actually Robert...That's not quite true...Yes back in your vintage you had a 3 speed switch in the control that was wired to a resistor on the back of the fan motor cage, but the original fan motor/s should have been single winding (single speed) motors.

You can still replace your 3 speed switch with an SCR control (like a reostat) from Cruisair for $85 ea...(man did that price go up !)
Anyway it's very easy to do & even your original knob will fit...It will give you variable speed (with the knob) & the ability to set how low is low (with a adjustment screw in the back)

Steve~

 

[spcoolin]

Thanks Steve... Would a squirrel cage blower unit fit in the hole I have now? It's about 1 1/2' by 1 1/2' by 2 1/2'....

It should Ed...But you will need to make some changes...The new unit would sit behind the return air grill on the deck...You would then "box in" (from the back side) your old discharge (of course after removing your existing unit) then run flex duct between the new unit & the new box...

Or you could run flex duct to other areas the may make the system perform even better...The higher you can discharge the better, because cold air falls.

Steve~

 

[Robby]

Check with Bill Root.He had to have the salon one done on our 43MY.Its single speed loud and one of the few things I dont like about this boat.Steve anyway to get this thing to shut down with the theromostat? I e it reaches its goal and the motor shuts down?Robby

 

[spcoolin]

Check with Bill Root.He had to have the salon one done on our 43MY.Its single speed loud and one of the few things I dont like about this boat.Steve anyway to get this thing to shut down with the theromostat? I e it reaches its goal and the motor shuts down?Robby

You mean so the fan shuts down with the compressor ?...Yes it can be wired that way but you won't like it much...

That is if you still have the 3 knob control as opposed to a Digital control...

Your control needs the constant air flow across it's sensing bulb to keep a fairly accurate cabin temp...If you wire it so that the fan cycles, you will get a large cabin temp swing...It will still cycle off at the same temp (because it has air flow) but since the sensing bulb is not out in the cabin when the fan shuts off, the box that the air handler & sensing bulb are in, will no longer be at the same temp as cabin temp and...That space will likely change temp at a much different rate than the cabin does...

Steve~

 

[q240z]

The original fan on my 1968 Connie salon AC started getting hinky two years ago--it didn't want to start and would run slowly once it got going. I took it apart and found the shaft mucked up with very old lube/grease/grime in the vicinity of the bushings/bearings. After cleaning everything up and reassembling with new grease, it's worked flawlessly.

 

[Robby]

You mean so the fan shuts down with the compressor ?...Yes it can be wired that way but you won't like it much...

That is if you still have the 3 knob control as opposed to a Digital control...

Your control needs the constant air flow across it's sensing bulb to keep a fairly accurate cabin temp...If you wire it so that the fan cycles, you will get a large cabin temp swing...It will still cycle off at the same temp (because it has air flow) but since the sensing bulb is not out in the cabin when the fan shuts off, the box that the air handler & sensing bulb are in, will no longer be at the same temp as cabin temp and...That space will likely change temp at a much different rate than the cabin does...

Steve~

I have two seperate ditigal controls.Robby

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I have two seperate ditigal controls.Robby

Get out the book for the controls. You can program the fans to do what you need as well as many other neat functions.

 

[Robby]

Get out the book for the controls. You can program the fans to do what you need as well as many other neat functions.

Your right I have .The one in the aft salon cycles properly.Bill just stated that it could not be done.Robby

 

[spcoolin]

Your right I have .The one in the aft salon cycles properly.Bill just stated that it could not be done.Robby

Sky & Robby...With Digitals that's all true because you have a program mode to be able to tell it what to do with the fan....You can also set how low is low fan to reduce noise....

Two things are...

If the system is set to shut the fan off with the compressor...You still need the temp sensor in the room/cabin for all the reasons I mentioned above...

Some (not all) Digital Controls have that sensor in or on the face of the control/keypad....This is where the problem can start....

If that sensor/control/keypad/display...That has the sensor is in the room....It can get either heat from a port light, window, engine room bulkhead, hatch, a/c discharge, etc...

Not to mention that a boat does not always sit the same way to the sun as a house does....Slips or anchorages change...Especially when cruising....

All I'm saying is it's very hard to place a room temp sensor in a boat because it can face many differing directions....

Some of the sensors that are in keypads by nature & heat transfer...Sense part of the bulkhead temp they are mounted on/in....

Do what you want...You will experience what it is, or is not...Every install is different and I often offer the remote sensor that folks can play with by moving it around before finding it a permanent home...

The "average" sensing of having it in the return with continuous fan (auto slow) seems to be preferred by my customers....

But yes...Digital control is needed, and you do need to go into the program mode to set how low, is low fan speed...Makes all the difference in the world & still keeps your setpoint within around 2 degrees....

Shucks...I guess that was more than Two things...Oh well...Hope it helps...

Steve~

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Steve,
Keypad placement is the key, as you stated. There is almost always a good spot to put that keypad that is out of the way of the sun.

I keep all of my FX1's set to lower the fan speed as the setpoint is reached and then shut down with the compessor. The temp swing is so much less than with the old Honeywells.

My point is, that Robby should be able to try it. If he has digital controls, the fan shut off should be an option.

 

[spcoolin]

Steve,
Keypad placement is the key, as you stated. There is almost always a good spot to put that keypad that is out of the way of the sun.

I keep all of my FX1's set to lower the fan speed as the setpoint is reached and then shut down with the compessor. The temp swing is so much less than with the old Honeywells.

My point is, that Robby should be able to try it. If he has digital controls, the fan shut off should be an option.

No doubt...Anything was better (including the 3 knob controls) than the Honeywell's with their Bi-Metal sensor disc which worked by "bending" with a temp change...With the Honeywells you were lucky to maintain temps within 5 degrees of where you set it, and that worked out to a 10 degree swing from heat to cool...

Yes Robby can surely try it, but what I'm also saying is that if it has a remote sensor installed (it's optional for some controls, but will also disable the one in the keypad once plugged in) and it is installed in (sensing) the return air path...He won't be happy...Just like I explained with the 3 knob controls & changing the wiring to make those cycle the fan.

Many times folks don't know these small things, and then think...Well I guess that's the way it is, or supposed to be...

My experience also tells me (comparing identical controls) that if you stay with a (properly installed) sensor in the return path and keep the fan running...Your room temp swing will be less than with the wall mounted sensor (and not all digital controls have them in the display)

A wall mounted sensor can only sense temp at the location it is installed...The other part of the cabin may get warmer, or cooler quicker than it can see because it's not over there...

A sensor that is installed in the return air with the fan running is getting a more constant "Average" sample of cabin air...

These new electronic sensors are very sensitive...some more so than others.
The controls differ too...I believe your FX1 has a fixed 2 degree temp differential...
Cruisair's SMXII's sensor for instance measures in 1/8's of a degree, and the differential can be programmed to keep the temp as close as 1/4 a degree...Of course no one ever does that, and the factory setting is 1.5 degrees but think again about them picking up heat from another source such as a bulkhead or a cold piece of unit metal if mounted near...

In the case of the display integrated sensors...The sensor is sensing as much of the control's temp as it is air temp...Of course you won't see a swing on the display because it is only sensing itself...

But I won't mention the All Day deal I had in Boca Grand under warranty on a new Gulfstar/Viking MY...Trying to find out why a system was going off on Hi PS in heat, when the captain was telling me (I'm in the engine room watching gauges) that the display says only 70 degrees (but it would go up or down a few degrees as we heated or cooled)....Long story shorter...Some Ding Dong had drilled a hole half way into a marine ply bulkhead & siliconed the sensor into that hole...Yeah...It was kinda in the return path but...We were sensing bulkhead temp all right....Reading 70 but it was like 90 degrees in the cabin...Yeah it's gonna show HI PS....

Steve~