Epoxy vs Varnish

[egaito]

As those of you that saw Sanctuary at Elliot Key may have noticed, her brightwork is in need of attention.

We've kicked around various varnishes as options, but I'm wondering if anyone has used epoxy, and if you were pleased with the results.

I'm thinking about it for Misty's pulpit as well, and have dreams of someday taking the imron off her entry doors to expose the wood, using epoxy to seal them.

Any feel as to which system offers the most transparent finish or how long it lasts outside?

Thanks,

 

[Paul45c]

I wouldn't do it, Ed. I put it on those yucky old factory translucent fiberglass hatches on my 45c. I shouldn't say, put it on, I guess...I renewed what was there, but the clear epoxy doesn't seem to hold up well, and it yellows really quickly. Just to make sure I didn't booger it up, I had my painter do it back when the boat was painted. Didn't seem to matter.

 

[Passages]

I would not suggest regular epoxy as it has poor resistence to UV breakdown. It turns very brittle and yellow over time.

Last spring, I was experimenting with something called Clear Penetrating Epoxy System (CPES) and wondered if it could be used as a finish. When applied, it soaked deep into the wood, went on clear and brought out some rich grain. Not sure if it would discolor over time.

Anyone have more experience with CPES?

 

[egaito]

I would not suggest regular epoxy as it has poor resistence to UV breakdown. It turns very brittle and yellow over time.

Last spring, I was experimenting with something called Clear Penetrating Epoxy System (CPES) and wondered if it could be used as a finish. When applied, it soaked deep into the wood, went on clear and brought out some rich grain. Not sure if it would discolor over time.

Anyone have more experience with CPES?

Maybe a good UV resistance varnish over epoxy? I've seen some wooden boats done this way, but I have no idea how well it holds up. Most of these are trailer queens.

 

[Genesis]

CPES has no UV inhibitors in it.

I've been down this road. IMHO nothing beats a good varnish. Yes, other ideas LOOK good, but varnish, if properly maintained, is only a pain in the tush ONCE. These other products are a pain in the tush FOREVER.

If you have varnish done once, you can take a green scotch-brite to it every four to six months to break the oxidized layer and put on a couple more coats - that's it. If you do that every 3-6 months (depending on where you are - more frequently in Florida of course) it can be maintained once done basically forever.

Let it go and you ned up having to strip and start over.

The problem with the other ideas is that they can't be 'maintenance coated' like this with any sort of success. You ALWAYS end up having to strip and start over, and that's a royal pain.

 

[Liquid Asset]

Ed,
West systems epoxy has a special hardner made for finishing wood with a little UV inhibitor in it. This is what we use to finish our fighting chair. The problem is it takes and extra step if you want it to last. You ahve got to sand all of the epoxy after aplying it and spray on a coat of Clear Coat like you would on a car. This is where you get your UV protection. If you speak with any of the chair manufactures, they will tell you they spray west system epoxy covered with an acrylic clear. I do think this is a lot of work for finishing wood, and ti does make a mess. So, i would probably use varnish.

 

[dwaynec]

I have had really good luck using the CLEAR Sikkens over Watco Teak Oil. I like everyone else do not like the regular Sikkens that gives everything a muddy look and a funny color.

What I have done is sand the wood down to bare wood and apply two to three coats of the Watco Teak Oil. I use the Watco because it dries to a hard finish and really brings out the grain and the color of the wood. After the Watco has dried, usually overnight in our area I start applying the clear Sikkens. I usually apply about six coats over six days. If you wait over two weeks between coats you have to scratch the surface with a fine sandpaper or Scotchbrite.

Since I have done this I maintain the finish by scratching the surface with fine paper and adding a coat of Sikkens once a year. The wood looks every bit as good as it after the first finish job three years ago.

The clear Sikkens applied unthinned flows very well so that if you use a good varnishing brush and it will fill in any scratches or nicks that may have gotten into the finish (don't ask me how I know this).

As a caveat, I boat on fresh water (well, Mississippi water) and far enough north that we don't end up with the great weather that you get (it snowed last night).

Dwayne

 

[jim rosenthal]

I have found that the best thing to do with those hatches on old Hatts that have the translucent part in the middle is to just paint the whole hatch top with Awlgrip, so that externally it is white all over. Light still gets through it and you don't have that yellowed part in the middle. We did my hatch with clear Imron and it did not hold up; clear coats don't seem to work too well on it. The Awlgrip has done fine, though.

 

[Will]

Having had wooden boats and loving the look of brightwork for years, I've tried everything. The result is, I have to agree with Genesis. Good quality varnish with good UV inhibitors is the only way to go. You start by stripping and bleaching down to clean, bear wood. Then apply CPES (CPES in itself will not hold up as a finish coat). Now, Apply 5 to 7 coats of varnish, sanding between coats with 320 grit. Depending on your location, this will hold for up to a year in bright, hot sun between maintenance coats (usually 2 coats will do it). The Maintenance coats are a breeze. Only light sanding and brushing. It is imperative that you keep up on your maintenance coats because once its start pealing, you have to go all of the way back to step one.

 

[Ross Macdonald]

Just a suggestion on the old translucent hatches...I took the hatches off and cut a pattern about an inch wider then the translucent part. Cut that section out and sand to a smooth edge. I had a light smoked plexiglass piece cut by a plastics place here and had the edges beveled and finished nicely. Using black 3M combo silicone and polyeurethane, coated the entire area from the cutout out to the edge of the hatch. Obviously all the holes for the small bolts to hold it down have to be done first. Once the plexi is in place, proper length bolts are pushed through and have cap nuts on the back side. Be sure to counter-sink the holes and have flat head bolts so everything is flush. This seemed to give the boat a more modern look and definitlely lets in alot more light.

 

[TomT13]

I redid my door on my 36C with Epiphane's clear varnish. I used the Interlux varnish sealer first. Put on 3 coats of sealer sanding with 220 between coats. Then I put on 8 coats of Epiphane's varnish. The work still looks great after one year and I think it will only require a minor sanding and additional coat on a yearly basis. It doesn't take that long. I purchased a Release Marine helm chair that someone coated with epoxy. It looked like hell and was a bear to sand and re-finish with varnish. I would not use epoxy.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

I think that Bristol Finish is the best choice. It is a two part polyurethane like Awlgrip, but has both UV inhibitors and amber coloring to make it look like varnish. You apply 4 coats in 2 hour increments, This means if you have lots of wood you just keep going around until all 4 coats are on. Now I let it cure for 24 hours, sand loghtly, then apply a final coat. They claim very good longevity. I have had it on for 3 years and it looks just like a great varnish job. Some big boat captains apply 8 coats, sanding every 3rd. coat or so, then brush on clear Awlgrip. This combo will last longer than the boat, or so they say. You can buy this stuff for $48.00 per qt. including a bottle of hardner at that marine store with the 2 names near Dinner Key in Monty's building. Here is the manufacturer's web site.. Great stuff!!!

www.bristolfinish.com

 

[egaito]

I think that Bristol Finish is the best choice. It is a two part polyurethane like Awlgrip, but has both UV inhibitors and amber coloring to make it look like varnish. You apply 4 coats in 2 hour increments, This means if you have lots of wood you just keep going around until all 4 coats are on. Now I let it cure for 24 hours, sand loghtly, then apply a final coat. They claim very good longevity. I have had it on for 3 years and it looks just like a great varnish job. Some big boat captains apply 8 coats, sanding every 3rd. coat or so, then brush on clear Awlgrip. This combo will last longer than the boat, or so they say. You can buy this stuff for $48.00 per qt. including a bottle of hardner at that marine store with the 2 names near Dinner Key in Monty's building. Here is the manufacturer's web site.. Great stuff!!!

www.bristolfinish.com

I think this is the way we'll go. I like the idea of the clear Awlgrip finish coat as well.....

 

[SKYCHENEY]

From what I understand, the two guys that came up with this 2-part finish started Honey Teak. Then they had a falling out and one partner left and started Bristol. I think that they are basically the same stuff, but some people swear by the Honey Teak and others prefer Bristol. I would ask around and see if you can look at both products in the field. I have only used Bristol, so I can't comment on the Honey Teak. All I can say is that I prefer the traditional varnishes.

 

[Angela]

The Honey Teak is the "signature finish" line. www.signaturefinish.com.

Appears to be a toss up between the two. We've seen both in the field. I wonder what the difference really is - maybe none.

 

[Nonchalant1]

I used Interlux best marine varnish, sanded down to bare wood, Interlux stain, Interlux Sealer (2 coats) and applied 5 coats of Interlux varnish with 24 hrs drying and sanding and tack ckoth between each coat, all per the interlux instructions. It lasted 2 seasons up north.

I just resanded and applied the 2 part Bristol finish. I really liked the "no sanding between coats feature. It works well. I'll repost after we complete the Great Circle Route with this finish. It rubs down like varnish where the Admiral insists on wrapping the rail with fender ropes.

Doug

 

[SKYCHENEY]

You don't have to sand between every coat of varnish either. Just reapply within 12hrs or so of first application. This really speeds up the process. Up here in Michigan, I also usually heat the varnish a bit before application. It lays down better and drys more quickly.

 

[Buccaneer]

Longevity on the Bristol Finish?

 

[Maynard Rupp]

Bristol Finish makes some great claims. 18 years in fresh water and , I believe about 7 years in a southern and salty area. I did ours 3 years ago and have just sanded and recoated some of it. I wasn't happy with the original lumpy finish. I then talked to the folks at Bristol Finish and they said to sand with 180 and re-coat. Looks great now. Their big deal is that they want 4 coats applied one after another for a chemical bond. These 4 coats are what they feel is needed for good UV protection. What you do after that is a matter of personal preference. I do think the stuff isn't rock hard as I do get scratches on the steps to the flybridge. I think the idea of using clear Awlgrip for a final coat has merit. Awlgrip clear is an extremly tough finish. I am not talking about their varnishes, but the same stuff that is used to paint boats, only in clear. The only problem with Awlgrip clear is that it has no UV inhibitors, but you get those from the Bristol Finish.