Electronics replacement hours billed question

[northshoreone]

Over the winter I had all of the old electronics on the helm taken out and replaced with new units. The old sat phone system and several old gps antennas, non functioning single sideband radio, radar and display, old ray marine unit, old camera system and display removed, DDEC displays moved and auto pilot moved. Two new 12 in and one new 16 in Garmins installed, new radar, new engine room cameras and a new vhf radio installed. My question is the hours billed to accomplish all this. I know it’s a very time consuming task but wanted the feedback of the experienced folks here on the approximate time this job should take! Right now, without it totally completed I am at 150 hrs billed. Now that just short of four straight weeks on the job! I can see two weeks for sure for taking it all out and putting it back, maybe even three but I’m having trouble with four! We are north of $11k in labor alone! So, is the rise in my blood pressure justified or not??

 

[doc g]

Did they remove all the wiring harnesses and therefore have to unbundle and re - tie everything down with the new wiring?? Did they repair the old holes and make new bezels to mount the new stuff or did they completely remake the dash(s)?? There is a lot to do, to do the job right can require a lot of hours. I replaced an old Northstar unit and added a Furuno MFD 12 to mirror an existing MFD 12 and just making the bezel and removing the NS and installing the Furuno took me two days and did not have any wiring to chase down, remove, replace, I assume this is also for both stations?? A photo would be good too, I'd like to see how it's all laid out.....Pat

 

[northshoreone]

Only one helm, it’s a 60 sportfish. Yes they did pull everything and I haven’t seen it as yet. I did provide the layout and like I said I know it’s allot of work and it always takes longer than you think but four weeks.......

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

Your profile says Ft. Myers. Felix Marine?

 

[northshoreone]

No, this boat is in Charlevoix MI at Bergman Marine still in storage. The Bertram 60 I bought a year ago after I sold my 70 Sport Deck that was in Fort Myers. I have had Felix do some work a long time ago and know why you are asking! Southwest FL marine on Ft Myers Beach is a better choice here......

 

[Photolomy]

That is excessive. I took out nearly as much stuff in just a few days. I didn't install as much, but once everything is open, it isn't that difficult. There is some fab involved, but your estimate of one week, two max is correct.

 

[motoryacht lover]

I just had a similar project done on my boat. I went with 2- 15” Furuno TZT2 units, with radar, Sirius weather, and AIS. I had a fusion stereo installed with new speakers, new VHF, new depth finder and 2 cameras in the engine room. the total bill was 34,000 installed. The broke labor out at approximately $5,000 and their hourly rate is $85/hr. The made the black “panels” as well. Don’t know if they padded materials to make labor lower or not. But if your total cost is about mine then maybe you are alright. I might have paid too much, I did not go with the cheapest and chose on reputation,

 

[motoryacht lover]

Another picture closer up

 

[dsharp]

Pulling wires is pretty much a two person job. Then there’s usually some dumbass that thinks a harness needs to be zip tied every 4”. Plus the plugs usually have to be removed before you pull the cable then reconnected/soldered etc. There’s really no way anyone can give you an idea of time without seeing the boat. It takes a fair amount of time to make something look “yacht quality” . They didn’t give you a ballpark before they started?

 

[northshoreone]

I supplied all of the hardware with the exception of the engine room cameras. With most marine electronic projects I’ve found they don’t like to commit to a number but talk time and material, which to an extent I understand. I will end up in the $35k area when it’s over so I guess they will get their lb of flesh one way or the other. Still surprised at going on five weeks of labor...I’ll post a pic of the finished product when I see it in a few weeks. The before pic is in my gallery of pics.

 

[Boatsb]

Why did you supply the gear. It should be priced the same almost anywhere you buy these days. Manufacturers have instituted standard pricing for most of the new electronics.

 

[Boatsb]

Why did you supply the hardware?

 

[motoryacht lover]

I think it is worth remembering that not all of the work of project occurs at the location (boat, site, etc.). I think to a lot of people contractors have a negative stigma and that they are making a killing ripping people off. Some of that reputation is well deserved. But there are many honest hardworking contractors, taking a lot of risk and there should be a reasonable reward. Trust me it is not easy money. Part of what I do is own an excavation business. And it is not uncommon for people to be shocked at the hourly rates for heavy equipment. Heavy equipment is like boats the purchase of the machine is just the beginning of the spending of money. And then they see you charge mobilization to bring the machines to the job and say WTF. You have a $100,000 dumptruck pulling a $40,000 trailer and the insurance cost for hauling 80,000 pounds on the highway is to put it mildly expensive. Not to mention I can count on 2 hands the number of $300 tires I have worn out. They pop from the weight, heat, etc. Over the the 20 years of owning “big boats” I have felt ripped off maybe 3 or 4 times. My experience with yards and boat subs has been largely positive.

 

[northshoreone]

Saving sales tax on $20,000 worth of hardware seems a good place to start. They did not seem to mind not being involved in the hardware purchase and actually preferred it. I am not concerned about the rate they are charging to do the work as it seems to be fair. Everyone asked to make a living I get it. My original question was only is the timeframe is taking a reasonable one for the work being done. If so it’s the end of the discussion and I’m fine with it.

 

[Boatsb]

So why dont you have to pay sales tax? Are you special? Do you work for the government and avoid paying taxes.

I guess it's ok to screw others and let them pay taxes while you save the money for boating.

Sales tax is the fairest tax. You pay when you buy things that are not your basic needs. So if you spend $20k on electronics you pay sales tax to your state. No body made you buy new electronics.

By the way Michigan has a use tax that your legally required to pay. Look it up and pay the 6%.

 

[Freeebird]

Saving sales tax on $20,000 worth of hardware seems a good place to start. They did not seem to mind not being involved in the hardware purchase and actually preferred it. I am not concerned about the rate they are charging to do the work as it seems to be fair. Everyone asked to make a living I get it. My original question was only is the timeframe is taking a reasonable one for the work being done. If so it’s the end of the discussion and I’m fine with it.

Saving sales tax is not as simple as it used to be on mail order transactions. Technically, and legally, you are required to pay a use tax equal to the sales tax of your state. Not sure how things work where you live, but many states are auditing shipping companies and billing the buyers who fail to pay. That can involve penalties as well. Just saying.

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

Saving sales tax is not as simple as it used to be on mail order transactions. Technically, and legally, you are required to pay a use tax equal to the sales tax of your state. Not sure how things work where you live, but many states are auditing shipping companies and billing the buyers who fail to pay. That can involve penalties as well. Just saying.

Maybe the electronics were for agricultural use.

 

[Freeebird]

Maybe the electronics were for agricultural use.

Good luck with that.

I've been in the mail order business for over 35 years, and times are definitely changing, and rightfully so. It isn't fair for legitimate retailers to be at a 6-9% disadvantage, although shipping costs offset that to an extent, if not altogether in some cases. More and more states are adopting laws that prevent people from not paying sales tax (which is only fair). Tennessee started auditing shipping companies several years ago, primarily to stem the flow of furniture into the state from NC. Many people have been unpleasantly surprised to be contacted by the tax man, thinking they had saved a few bucks. It didn't end well for them.

I don't ship nearly as much out of state as I did back in the day, but when I do, it always comes with the disclaimer that while I don't have any obligation to collect sales tax, I can't tell you what will happen on your end. It's really pretty simple when it comes down to it. You either follow the rules, or you don't. Sorry for the derail, but since the OP brought it up, I guess it's okay.

 

[nautibake]

I just had a similar project done on my boat. I went with 2- 15” Furuno TZT2 units, with radar, Sirius weather, and AIS. I had a fusion stereo installed with new speakers, new VHF, new depth finder and 2 cameras in the engine room. the total bill was 34,000 installed. The broke labor out at approximately $5,000 and their hourly rate is $85/hr. The made the black “panels” as well. Don’t know if they padded materials to make labor lower or not. But if your total cost is about mine then maybe you are alright. I might have paid too much, I did not go with the cheapest and chose on reputation,

Wow, that is beautiful, thanks for the pics. I’m still running dual Furuno MFD12 NavNet 3D, they are circa 2011. Still bulletproof, but slow as molasses. I hope to upgrade to TZT2 in the next year or so. How do you like them?

For the original poster, I feel your pain, this has been a consistent theme with almost every major project we have undertaken. Under-estimated and over-billed (my perception). Admittedly, the projects I have taken on personally end up taking twice as long as I thought they would too, so there is something to these boats that requires “discovery” of the unknown or unexpected, like when I recently installed a security camera on the foredeck and created a leak in the windshield washer system.

 

[motoryacht lover]

Wow, that is beautiful, thanks for the pics. I’m still running dual Furuno MFD12 NavNet 3D, they are circa 2011. Still bulletproof, but slow as molasses. I hope to upgrade to TZT2 in the next year or so. How do you like them?

Thanks for the compliment. I am happy so far. We ended modifying the the panel to get the screens at a better angle so you don’t have to stand to use them. I haven’t had a lot of time with the system but so far so good. I left Garmin because they no longer use the Explorer Charts for the Bahamas. With Furuno you can buy them for $300. I was concerned about learning the Furunos but it really is pretty intuitive.