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electric shock

  • Thread starter Thread starter joe wheeler
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joe wheeler

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
19
Hatteras Model
65' SPORT DECK (1996 - 1998)
A passenger felt a shock from the stainless handrail on the flybridge. I thought it might be a reaction from the salt coating on the rail since we were in wet seas. When we docked I checked with a VOM and read 2.5v. We washed down and everything to the radar arch was off and I could not feel the shock. Today a cleaning hand reported getting shocked on the bimini frame which is also attached to the aluminum arch. No power is on to radar, antennas or TV dish. Any ideas?
 
dont go by seat of the pants testing. get the vom back out and get a good ground for 12v- as well as 120v nuetral/ground. test around all areas, flip equipment on/off. turn on breakers on at a time. what else where the victims(!) touching when they got the shock? they were being a conductor in order to get the shock in the first place so where did they conduct the electricity to? 2.5volts dc or ac wont hurt people but will disolve your underwater metal in a hurry. take a look at the zincs while yor at it. alot of boats had all metal bonded so the voltage could be comingthrough the green wire too.
 
Dont forget wet bare feet! This doesnt negate the voltage leak, but will make it noticable to the unwary; especially if its an A.C. leak. ws
 
think back to what you or someone else has installed on the boat. you have more than lackly drilled into a power wire on something or have a power wire chaffing. if not take a meter and turn off power to everything and then starting turning on power one by one until you get a voltage reading. do not turn off anything once you turn it on until you find the source.
 
Thanks for the ideas. I have the installer of the new Sea Tel satellite dish checking this afternoon. Other than new ICOM radios that is the only modification and they ran new wiring from top of the arch through the boat to the entertainment cabinet. I asked him to check that they did not loop current back to the mounting from somewhere. I will let folks know when he gets back to me. my reading was 2.5v AC and the folks who felt the shock were sitting on the vinyl seats or the "wet" boat cleaner!
 
It may not apply here but I knew of a wooden boat where you would get an electrical shock if you touched bare wood ( paint chipped out) on the hull but not on finished surfaces. It turned out to be the result of a polarity problem with the 110/240 volt electrical power.
Will
 
It is going to most likely be an AC problem. Your not going to feel 2 1/2 volts DC. You also need to know what the person was doing and touching when they received the voltage. Like said get your meter out and start checking. How did you measure the voltage from what to what and what scale AC or DC. When and if you find a voltage. First check with the AC shore power disconnected. If its gone its not DC. Then plug in the shore power with the main breaker on the boat off. Check. Then turn on the main and turn off all of the small breakers. check. Then start turning on one breaker at a time checking for voltage each time. Should you find a breaker that creates a voltage. Turn it off and continue checking on until they are all back on. If no voltage is found. Turn all the small breakers off and turn on the breaker that produces the voltage. From there unplug anything that is plugged into that line and check for voltage. If there is no voltage. Start plugging things back in one at a time checking each time. If and when the voltage appears unplug that item and continue checking each item as you plug them in. Should the voltage not go away when every thing is disconnected. You will need to dig into the wires that feed all of that circuit looking for a bare spot or a pinched wire or maybe an improperly placed screw. Good luck.

BILL
 
This same thing happened to me on an old 41 luhrs. if someone touched two points on the tower(grounded the circuit), they got a big shock. It turns out they was a bare wire from the spot light touching the tower.

Craig's theory might be an possible from the dock, but i thought it also happened when you were out(Generator) Look for a bare wire.

Mike
Habanero 55C
 
I'm thinking you have 2 problems. First you have current leaking to the rail. Second the rail is not properly grounded.

Brian
 
Ditto to Brian's post #10.

To ease testing you might clamp a wire to the handrail in question and bring the other end to a convenient point (in the vicinity of your eletric switches) to save running bank and forth for testing...If you also extend a ground (via a separate wire) to the same area, voltage testing will be a LOT faster....

"the folks who felt the shock were sitting on the vinyl seats or the "wet" boat cleaner!"

I don't understand to what "wet boat cleaner" refers....but if a shock was received between vinyl seats and the handrail, one of them is hot...a visual inspection is appropriate to possibly identify the source....and as noted, you can't feel 2.5 volts...that's like a flashlight battery....
 
Have not heard back from the technician this morning. It is not the shore power because it also was felt on generator. Technician yesterday said he got a 6v AC reading and he was in the process of eliminating circuits. The only metal contact of the handrail is to the radar arch. Although no circuits to the arch are on there must be a ground below the flybridge returning to the arch. Zincs ahowed normal wear last week on inspection and underwater hull cleaning. if he does not find it today I will have a marine electrician check it. Charleston is 3 hrs away unfortunately. Currently the shorepower AC circuits that are active are battery chargers, refrigerators and minimal cooling.
 
You may have a situation were someone daisy chained grounds. As an example lets say a 120V spreader light was added to the arch. If the installer wanted to save time and just grounded the light to the arch or rail that's were the problem begins. Now if the bonding wire for the arch or rail fails and there is an electrical leak in the spreader light you have a low voltage on the rail and arch looking for ground. A wet person then becomes the path. This is why every piece of electrical equipment must have it's own ground with it's own ground wire going to the the boats bonding system.

Brian
 
I diagnosed a situation some years ago that is similar. the voltage was dc so no health risks but there was 12v+ in the windshield rail. turns out that someone wired the mast light backwards. the positive fed through the body of the housing with the negative/isolated/switched side after the switch. no matter what position the switch was in, 12v+ was fed to the housing and from there to anything that was touching/bonded. maybe its a good time for us all to get out the little hot/neutral/ground test plugs and check our ac systems!
 
Are you SURE it's AC? Is your boat a 32VDC system? I got a substantial jolt from the 32vdc the first day we owned our boat and were enroute down the Delaware river to head up to NY.

The owner had installed a pull-type horn switch which was an all metal contact switch activated by pulling an little braided rope thingie. The braided rope was connected to a metal rod that protruded slightly below the bottom of the overhead console at the lower helm. I was holding the metal destroyer wheel and reached up to sound the horn. Instead of grasping the braided rope at the end I reached up and grabbed it at the point where it joined the metal rod, making the connection between the hot switch frame/rod and ground. I let out a serious yelp and leaped back from the helm. So if you have a 32VDC system, check out the possibility that it's DC, not AC. I have never felt a shock from a 12vdc system but I have never worked on a 24v system that I can recall so maybe one can feel a shock from that as well.

Re AC, I fool with old Lionel trains from the 50's which run on ac power. I have never felt a shock from the transformer leads with full power applied which is around 18-20 VAC.

Just thought I'd add...I believe people have varying sensitivity to elec shocks. I have worked with folks who didn't flinch at all when "bitten" by ignition coil voltage when fooling with ignition wires, saying they could hardly feel it. Whereas I have a lot of "reaction" to them them and will not pull an ign wire off a plug with my bare hand with the engine running. I use a pair of purpose-made pliers. So it's also possible I guess for one person to feel a shock and another not.
 
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Do not think that 12 VDC poses no health risks. If you are dry, no cuts, and otherwise "complete" (no recent amputations or operations requiring drains etc.) yes the resistance of your body is high enough to thwart the electrical pressure of 12 VDC. Otherwise you can get badly shocked.

Ted
 
So it's also possible I guess for one person to feel a shock and another not (Quote Mike P)

Yeah that's true I've noticed that girly men get all shaken up with a measly 32V shock. Best to avoid fooling around with wiring when your high heals or mini skirt is sweaty.


Brian
 
I'm pretty sure it's more about the voltage level in regards to danger, not merely AC vs DC. If the voltage is high enough to jump through your body across your heart (basically breaking down your body's "insulation") than you are in for a bad day.
 
Put the 2nd hand in your back pocket!
 
Better yet if you don't know what your doing stay the hell out of the panels.

Get someone who knows.

One handed or two handed wannabe electricians don't last long.

BILL
 
"Craig", I think your post was very informative to someone who knows nothing about electricity. I think also it should,too, be a warning to people who think they know all there is to know. The first thing I learned from my father who was a pretty good electrician, among other things was to respect it. Even still I have been bit by 110v, 220v, 440v, and hell even cut a 9Kv line in two with a back hoe. I think anyone who has ever worked in the field gets there pants scared off them every once in a while and most times by being careless. In fact as careful as I know my father was, he got lifted up over a 6ft safty railing and thrown about 30ft by a 440V fuse panel with over 200 fuses in it,, that blowed up in his face. Third degree burns from fingers to elbow, 2nd and 3rd on face and neck, burns and blisters in his windpipe and esophogus. Six months of just growing skin back and several years getting back to near norma. It only takes one mistake, this was supposedly a locked out system, that someone had wired a hot from a different panel making a short cut. Nearly cost him his life.

My point, read through the BS and clutter, but if you feel the need to respond, respond to the ones it may help and overlook all the other, as it may not be personal at all. Your post here could have been the one that prevented someone from doing something stupid. My opinion is that if you mess with electricity, especially one that has potential of mixing so many voltages, and types of voltages, as our boats have, and you don't have the basic knowledge, then you need to stay out of the boxes.
Again, it only takes one mistake.
 

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