Dockside Electric may be faulty

[MicroKap]

This weekend we determined from our electric panel that there must be some sort of problem with our dockside electric. On generator, everything on the boat worked fine. On dockside, Service Panel No. 4 (110 volt) kept tripping the breaker. Turning the dial on my volt meter indicated that there was 208 volts coming in. When I switched to check 110 volt, it barely moved. Due to a whole bunch of other issues (family health related), I haven't had a chance to get back to the boat to check what the problem is. I left the electric plugged in and operating minimal equipment (refrig., battery chargers, some lights).

Any ideas on what the problem could be. I may not be able to get down there soon, so what should I do?

 

[Pascal]

hwo do you connect to shore power? a single 125/250-50 cable?

if so, the first thing to check is fro proper voltage on the outlet on the pedestal, you should fiind about 110v on each hot of the 2 to neutral adn about 220v between the two hots. then check at the end of your power cable.

if this checks out ok, it's a wiring issue on board. could be isolation transformer, could be the rotary switch, or the infamous big fuses if you have them...

these are not the kind of things you want to ignore. if the problem is bad contacts or arcing, it could start a fire.

 

[MicroKap]

Two years ago, I didn't have a problem with my electric. Last year, the fixed dock was replaced along with all services. They rewired the old pedestals and made every pedestal contain 2 50's and 4 30's to be split for two boats. I've been having problems ever since. I continue to pop the dock breaker after only a few minutes of running my hot water heater. I try to reduce air conditioner use to two units when water heater is on (out of 4 in the cabin area). I continually pop the dock breaker. I haven't been down on the boat as much this year because of my mom's health issues, but the plug at the stanction seems to get warm when the gauge on the boat is at 40 amps.

 

[Walter P]

Hi Larry,

It sounds like you have the same problem I have at Patten Point. We have 208 V. coming in and my isolation transformer is connected somehow to require 220 or 240. The poles can be changed to be able to use the 208 correctly but by doing so it will create an "over power" problem at other docks when we travel. The solution is to have a switching system made and installed, which I have been trying to have done for over a year. I think the only Certified marine electrician in our area is Keith at Oceanport Landing and he's always so busy that the job still needs to be done. My recommendation is to talk to Keith about your situation and also find out what your club power input is. Perhaps we can both benefit from a combined effort....

Walt

 

[MicroKap]

I've been using an exterior "Buck Booster" to add 10% to the volts which decreases the amps by 10%. It seemed to be working well over the past four years, but when I boarded the boat this Saturday, Service Panel no.4 was tripped. Service Panel No.4 is a 110volt panel and even with all breakers turned off in the pump room, there was still a fault on the main panel not allowing power to service the individual breakers. Jack Sardina was onboard. We tried to see what was going on without the booster inline and noticed almost no voltage coming in on one of the legs, but reading approximately 208 volts on the main setting. Unfortunately, I had to get to the hospital for my mother so I did not have a chance to investigate any further.

On my boat, there are switches on the main panel for boost, however, since there is no instruction on how to use them, I tried once and every main breaker popped, so I haven't looked to do anything with them since. Unfortunately, it was the bad side of buying a boat from an estate. Any ideas would be appreciated. If you wanted to "practice" on fixing mine to better understand your system, I wouldn't have a problem as long as you don't electrocute yourself.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

What year is the boat?

Do you have the ground faults on each main breaker for each service panel (late 70's vintage?). I have seen the GFI's go bad and trip just one service panel main. If you don't have any receptacles that are breakered through service panel 4, you can just unhook that GFI.

 

[MicroKap]

I have "master" GFIs that will flip an entire panel. There are no separate GFIs around the boat. I have a feeling that there must be something wrong from the dock as there appears to be minimal electric coming onboard on the 110 volt side. This may increase the amp draw which may trip the breaker, so I left the breaker in the off position until I have time to get back there to investigate more. I'm no electrician, so I'd have to take baby steps with a lot of guidance.

Thank you for your help.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I have "master" GFIs that will flip an entire panel. There are no separate GFIs around the boat. I have a feeling that there must be something wrong from the dock as there appears to be minimal electric coming onboard on the 110 volt side. This may increase the amp draw which may trip the breaker, so I left the breaker in the off position until I have time to get back there to investigate more. I'm no electrician, so I'd have to take baby steps with a lot of guidance.

Thank you for your help.

Those are the GFI's that I was speaking of. If only one panel is tripping, it is probably just a bad GFI. You can easily disable that by just removing the sensing wire.

 

[MicroKap]

I was able to get down to the boat last week for a little while. First, I tried plugging dockside power cord into port inlet. No juice showed up on panel at all. Went back to starboard side. Moved dock end to another pedestal and same results, so, it's either the cord or the boat.

The main electric panels work fine under generator power, so that is why I am confused as to what the problem can be narrowed down to just the dockside AC. The breakers in the troubled panel do not trip under load from generator power.

Any additional help would be appreciated.

 

[Traveler 45C]

I would love to come back home to Jersey to give ya’ a hand but I guess we’ll have to do it this way.

Did you check the voltage at the boat end of the power cord? If good, the problem must be between the boats power input receptacle and the breaker panel (which functions fine while powered from the genny, right?)

You’ll have to look at your wiring diagram AND visually check the wires from the boats power input to the breakers.

What’s in-between the two?

 

[MicroKap]

The panel functions fine from "genny power". I will check electric output at the boat end of the shorepower cord tomorrow when I get down for the long weekend. Inbetween the dockside inlet and the panel are the isolation transformers. I've left my Buc Booster out of the line for the time being to take any additional variables out. Hopefully, I can ask one of my friends to work through the lines with me to try to rectify this problem.

Thank you for your help.

 

[Traveler 45C]

No problem, my pleasure.

One word of caution, before you touch anything, make sure it's off. Know whether it's an AC or DC line and check with a meter to be sure it's dead. That'll keep you from getting dead

 

[MicroKap]

Update....
Power from the pedestal checks out okay, however, the breaker gets very hot even when drawing power for one A/C unit and the refrigerator and nothing else on the boat on. Sometime between 1980 and now, it appears that someone "rewired" the original inlet to include a "box" on each side in the cockpit for a 50 amp 120/240 volt feed and cable/telephone inlets. The wires are routed within conduit to a 50 amp breaker panel in the engine room on each side that also contains a 50 amp breaker for each of the generators as well. Then it goes back up to the ISO/Boost transformers (I know how to use them properly now) and shows me the incoming voltage and the voltage going out after the "Boost".

Distribution Panel No. 4 is still tripping when trying to engage.

I'm now having some problems with my battery charger (old ferr model) that keeps tripping its built in breaker, but not the two battery charger breakers on the Service Panel No. 3. My batteries are now dead and I'm no closer to solving this annoying problem.

Anyone want to drive/fly in for a couple days and troubleshoot and repair this situation for me?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Do you still have the shotgun fuses at the inlets on each side of the boat? We just worked on Airpilot's 60C and he had a burnt wire between the fuseholder and the main panel. He was constantly blowing fuses before that.

Several weeks earlier, he was tripping the main breaker for service #4. It was the GFI that would cause it to trip. We disconnected the GFI from the main breaker as there are no outlets on service #4 and that solved the problem.

 

[MicroKap]

I no longer have the shotgun fuses on each side of the cockpit. My shoreside connections are located under the gunnel on each side of the cockpit, with openings facing the floor. There is nowhere in this "box" that a 50amp fuse could be. I also took my flashlight and opened up the air intake to take a peek. Not there either. Also, not in the engineroom. This looks to have been replaced with 50 amp breakers in the engine room. The wire then runs back up and into the main panel. There are definitely outlets connected to my Service Panel #4, so I feel very uncomfortable with disconnecting the GFI. All I know, it's very disconcerting to know that my boat is sitting there paralyzed with now power to bilge pumps and if something goes wrong, it can really go wrong.

 

[Traveler 45C]

Just taking a stab here:

Perhaps your battery charger is the cause of the problem. Have you tried removing it from the circuit (AC)?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Larry,
Why can't you get any power when connected to the inlets on the other side of the boat? I would think that moving the cord to the other side would be a good test.

On the 60C with the burnt wire, we narrowed it down by switching the cord to the port side of the boat. Everything worked fine on that side, but it blew the fuses on the stbd side.

I would check your wires and connections closely. This burnt wire started out as just a loose terminal on the fuse holder. You may have a similar situation. I'd inspect the wires inside that breaker box in the ER and make sure all of the terminals are tight. Since the genny powers everything fine, I'd look real close at everything from the inlet to the main panel.

 

[MicroKap]

Latest update...
Based on initial checks recommended by our resident expert, Roger Wertherington, it looks like the GFI on the Service Distribution Panel #4 may be bad, just as Sky had said may be a possibility. I can't just disconnect the GFI sensor as that panel feeds, Stbd Lower level lights, stbd lower level recepticles, utility & engine room recepticles, galley recepticles, utility room blower, engine room blowers, water maker, generator battery chargers and davit.

Roger informed me that Airpax no longer makes a breaker to replace the existing and that it would be best to cap white wire on GFI on the main panel and then install separate GFIs for each breaker on the subpanel in the pump room.

Any good electricians in NJ that could be recommended?

Thank you for your continued help.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Larry,
How about disconnecting the wire to the GFI on the master breaker for service panel #4 temporarily? This way you could tell if that is really the problem before you start adding GFI's further downstream.

Then, if you do have to add the GFI's, the easiest way may be to just put GFI outlets in instead of finding new breakers.

One more thought: Could you swap Service Panel Main breaker #4 with another main breaker that has a good GFI? For instance, if #3 has no outlets on it, then swap it with #4.

 

[MicroKap]

I disconnected the white wire temporarily (put electrical tape on it), powered breaker up fine. Service panel 3 also has recepticles on it. Any idea what the Airpax part number is on that 4pole breaker/GFI assembly?

Roger had recommended that even with all the breakers in the off position to open up the subpanel in the pump room (with power off) and disconnect all power wires temporarily, leave white wire connected upstairs to GFI to make sure that it is the main breaker GFI.

Got a little dark down there tonight, so had to leave it at that point. If I can find the needle in the haystack (Airpax Main Breaker), it may save me a lot of time and I can do it myself.