Cruisair air handler blowers- If one ceases to turn...

[Milacron]

but yet the bearings seems good such that the squirrel cage will turn and start easily with a little help (pushing it with pinkie) would putting in a new run capacitor likely cure the problem ?

I was told by one tech that sometimes the blower motors, even with the slightest wear in the shaft bushings may happen to occasionally stop at a point where there is the slightest difference in the distances between armature and magnets and refuse to start up the next time.

And yet I wonder if part or not all of the problem is more "getting old" capacitor related ? Guess I'll find out in a week or so when a couple of replacement caps come in from eBay. In the meantime, curious what any of you have found regarding this issue ? In other words can these blowers turn effortlessly as new by hand, but still cease to work due to microscopic wear in the axle bushings causing a slight off center situation....or is a weak capacitor more likely ?

 

[saltshaker]

It's the motor.

 

[Milacron]

It's the motor.

I suspect in the end I will find that is indeed the case. But it is mysterious in that one of the (identical) blowers ceased to turn at the beginning of the summer, I turned it by hand (that is all...applied no oil) and it has worked ever since ! That's eight months of that previously non rotating blower working every time I turn it on. (often with 3 or more days between turn ons)

 

[saltshaker]

I suspect in the end I will find that is indeed the case. But it is mysterious in that one of the (identical) blowers ceased to turn at the beginning of the summer, I turned it by hand (that is all...applied no oil) and it has worked ever since ! That's eight months of that previously non rotating blower working every time I turn it on. (often with 3 or more days between turn ons)

if it doesn't stop at the bad spot it wil restart normally. The capacitor won't make a difference if the motor will start with a push.

 

[Milacron]

if it doesn't stop at the bad spot it wil restart normally. The capacitor won't make a difference if the motor will start with a push.

It doesn't even take a "push" but just the slightest touch to get it going. Just a few minutes ago I got a response on another marine forum from someone whose blowers were acting exactly like mine and new caps did fix his... so there is hope....we'll see....

 

[magnawake]

I didnt know the blower motor has a capacitor. Last year my fan started squeaking slightly when I turned it on and when it stopped. I knew what was going to happen. It actually happened sooner than later. Then one day it was running and I heard a squeeling then a chunk. The motor was frozen. I had a boat showing the next day so I drove about 2 hrs and bought another fan motor. It came with the housing and everything. Just over $200 for the works. It took hours to remove and replace it because it was under the fly bridge and hard to access. I wish it was just the capacitor. The fan was still movable though just not with my pinkie.

 

[Milacron]

I didnt know the blower motor has a capacitor. Last year my fan started squeaking slightly when I turned it on and when it stopped. I knew what was going to happen. It actually happened sooner than later. Then one day it was running and I heard a squeeling then a chunk. The motor was frozen. I had a boat showing the next day so I drove about 2 hrs and bought another fan motor. It came with the housing and everything. Just over $200 for the works. It took hours to remove and replace it because it was under the fly bridge and hard to access. I wish it was just the capacitor. The fan was still movable though just not with my pinkie.

Don't know if they are all the same but on my blowers the capacitor is a little black cube that is mounted on the fan housing rather than on the motor. Replaced a larger cap on a commercial office air handler this summer and it also was mounted on the fan housing rather than on the motor.

 

[saltshaker]

It doesn't even take a "push" but just the slightest touch to get it going. Just a few minutes ago I got a response on another marine forum from someone whose blowers were acting exactly like mine and new caps did fix his... so there is hope....we'll see....

Maybe you'll get lucky but I don't see how a capacitor would act this way. I had one do exactly what yours is doing on a house furnace. Replaced the motor and all was fine. No capacitors were changed and yes you just needed to move it with very little effort to get it going.

 

[Milacron]

Maybe you'll get lucky but I don't see how a capacitor would act this way. I had one do exactly what yours is doing on a house furnace. Replaced the motor and all was fine. No capacitors were changed and yes you just needed to move it with very little effort to get it going.

Actually I don't either being a run capacitor. If it was a weak start cap I could see it. OTOH, it could be a situation where just the tiniest increase in electron flow might make the difference in whether the blower starts turning or not. A new cap might make that tiny difference, even if a run type. Further evidence of this is the fact that before this particular blower ceased to turn for good, it did occassionaly cease to turn once but then did turn the next try (i.e. cut system off and back on)

So even if a tiny offset in the armature due to worn bearings might cause the blower not to turn if it happens to stop at a certain point, the tiniest extra electrical flow might get it going regardless. But as I say, we will see..

 

[saltshaker]

I understand the thinking but the problem would be that the new capacitor might help overcome the failing motor which will eventually need repair or replacement. I had the same issue with a starter on a car. Dealer kept changing sensors, relays, switches etc. They even replaced the wiring to the starter. Problem was the car wouldn't attemp to start but eventually would after 15-30 minutes. This would only happen once then be fine for a few months. I suggested replacing the starter and they said that wasn't the problem. Eventually it started to happen more often and after they exhausted all thier options they replaced the starter. Problem never reoccurred after that. I'd use this as an opportunity to upgrade the blower to a turbo-vap. Much better air flow and very quiet.

 

[Milacron]

I understand the thinking but the problem would be that the new capacitor might help overcome the failing motor which will eventually need repair or replacement.

True, but if it works I'm going to also go to the trouble of oiling the bronze bushings, which should extend the life of the bushings, and therefore the motor in general, another few years. The bushings, especially the one on the fan side, are nearly iimpossible to reach, but I'll figure out some way to do it.

Speaking of which, if you've ever read the manual on a home heat pump there is usually a recommendation to oil the condenser fan motor bushings at least every year. Almost no one actually does this of course as they are so much trouble to get to, and the replacement fans are relatively cheap.

But when one complains to the manufacturer about the bushings wearing out, they have that bit in print about oiling them, and can say you didn't oil them...your fault ! When the reality is for maybe 5 bucks more they could have used proper sealed ball bearings, and the fan motors would last virtually forever with no maintenance at all.

But they purposely use bronze bushings.. which is nuts, since ball bearings have been abundant since the 1920's ..but they do it for future motor and dealer maintenance charges. Same deal with these little Cruisair blowers... they easily could have used sealed ball bearings, and these sorts of issues wouldn't exist....but they didn't.

 

[Avenger]

You are close enough to manufacturing to know that every engineering decision is based on cost. The sealed ball bearing motor will never be made in the consumer goods industry because the vast majority of consumers are utterly ignorant of the quality and longevity equation and will buy the cheapest thing they can get every single time.

Witness your own decision to band-aid a failing motor instead of avoiding the inevitable and just replacing it now.

 

[Milacron]

You are close enough to manufacturing to know that every engineering decision is based on cost. The sealed ball bearing motor will never be made in the consumer goods industry because the vast majority of consumers are utterly ignorant of the quality and longevity equation and will buy the cheapest thing they can get every single time.

Yes, that falls into the "well, duh..." department. Nonetheless a case could be made that some HVAC manufacturers specifically mentioning "And we are one of the few using ball bearing fan motors..." would benefit in profits way beyond the cost of the ball bearings by gaining market share over competitors, when consumers are swayed to their better quality. My opinion of "the vast majority of consumers" is not as low as yours I guess.

Witness your own decision to band-aid a failing motor instead of avoiding the inevitable and just replacing it now.

It is not a "band aid" fix if the run capacitor is truly low and a new one fixes the problem. Certainly there may be minor wear in the bearings as well but the fan might run for years with a new cap and a few drops of oil. Or it might not... I'm curious to find out as much as anything. It's not a critical application after all.

Remember it is "inevitable" that a brand new blower will fail eventually as well....perhaps even more so due to quality differences between a 1993 Taiwanese blower and a 2016 Chinese one.

 

[Avenger]

Keep holding out for the intelligent consumer. While he, as in "you and I" do exist. They are an aberration. Most people will dismiss the engineering speak as salesmanship and buy the cheap one. Sorry, but my cynicism comes from too many years of painful experience of trying to add value and competitive pricing that gets overrun by "the guy down the block will sell it for $25.00 less." And when I point out the customer's own admission that he's had problems with the guy down the block he says, yes, but it's $25.00 less."

Hold.on to your dreams. And BTW, putting a bigger start capacitor on it may band-aid the problem although my experience says otherwise. Your issue has Nada to do with a run capacitor.

 

[Milacron]

Your issue has Nada to do with a run capacitor.

While I think that is entirely possibly, my guess, based on two things, is there is a 60 percent chance it will fix the problem. The two things are

1. The way the blower acted before it stopped turning

2. Someone on another marine forum with exactly the same blowers and exactly the motor action and inaction who reported that putting in new caps did fix his blowers.

What I don't yet know (keep meaning to ask) is how long ago that was, and how many on/off cycles have they been thru since. In other words, if new caps fixed his problem just two months ago, a whole 'nuther ballgame from 5 years ago.

Re your mention of a larger start cap....there is no start cap on this type of fractional (virtually no start load) HP motor..only a run cap.

 

[dottieshusband]

I'm sure yours is a different motor, but the various EBO types on my boat have a lube hole. I had one of the smaller ones, 8k, had the same issue. A little lite "sewing machine" oil cleared it right up. Still working fine 2 years later

 

[Milacron]

I'm sure yours is a different motor, but the various EBO types on my boat have a lube hole. I had one of the smaller ones, 8k, had the same issue. A little lite "sewing machine" oil cleared it right up. Still working fine 2 years later

Interesting....I don't think mine have lube holes but that info will inspire me to look for them, thanks.

 

[bobk]

Interesting....I don't think mine have lube holes but that info will inspire me to look for them, thanks.

Those holes can be hard to see and access. Some of mine are just small 'nicks' in the motor housing. An oiler with a flexible delivery tube helps access them.

Bobk

 

[Cricket]

I'm unable to understand why the good people on this forum would attempt to help the owner of the misfit Viking stepchild when he's got all the answers all the time anyway. Never brings anything positive to this forum while only looking for the cheapest way out while lecturing all..

 

[dottieshusband]

I'm unable to understand why the good people on this forum would attempt to help the owner of the misfit Viking stepchild when he's got all the answers all the time anyway. Never brings anything positive to this forum while only looking for the cheapest way out while lecturing all..

The Broncos won the Super Bowl, Peyton got his final ring. Miracles CAN happen and perhaps Leopards can change their spots.... But I do feel you.