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Cleaniedini 65C Restoration Project

Well, Cleani asked about keeping the copper water lines in the 65LRC. There were some good responses that were lost when Doug tried to move it here. Maybe some of you can re-post that info for him.
 
It took me the better part of any hour writing up that last post, lucky for everyone I save them!

Dini
 
Cleanie,
Did you read the responses to your post before they got trashed or not? Maybe some of us can fill in the holes if you missed it.
 
I got most of them, I think this all went down when I was working on the boat...
What i am really worried about is getting everything together only to find out that something like a water line burst and ruins everything...
Is there any history of these boats having bad water lines. I see some green spots on some of the copper pipe, my father says it may be pitting from the inside. Is this common? I would hate to put it back together and not fix a problem but then again I would hate to waste time and money on a nonissue.

Regards
Dini
 
A little green I would not worry about I feel it is from the outside. I don't feel it coming from inside. If you feel un easy whih is understandable cap the end of the run and pressure test them with air. Just remember LOW pressure good guage and see if it holds.
Good luck and if you save your post maybe you can paste it back!
 
I know the nightmare of the leak as I think I have a few. Most of my problems can be traced to poor work done by the PO's and such but I will be changing out pieces of copper until I can get the leak(s) stopped and since the boat is together its quite a pain. Double check everything that is in accesable befor putting things back. Also from experiance in electronics and AV installs I suggest running spera wires/cables and pulls for the future. You never know what you may need. Coax? Ethernet? Power?
 
I have had some trouble with copper water lines, as follows:

1) the copper will work-harden and begin to leak at places where it has to flex and vibrate a lot. It is hard to predict where this will happen. Generally, at each end of a copper line there is a flex hose connected to it which prevents this from happening. The problem is that often, at least in my boat, the flex hose is just slipped over the end of the copper and hose-clamped. Inevitably this leaks. I do not think this was OEM fitment, as it is way too sloppy- I think it came along later on by one of the POs, and I have yet to take it out. Really it should be flared and the right hose fittings put on.

2) Copper will and has burst if water lies in it and freezes. I have had to replace line sections twice. What I learned was that it is impossible to winterize the system using compressed air. The air just bubbles through the water in the low-lying pipe sections and does not push it out. You have to drain the system and then put pink antifreeze through it, which of course means that the water will feel and taste lousy for the first few months of the boating season, until the AF is all rinsed out of there.

3) Copper turns green from corrosion. The prevention for this is to spray the piping, where you can get to it, with Corrosion-X, which has a very long life span and will keep it bright. Unfortunately, all these boats were built before C-X was invented, so they all have green tubing. Cleaning or polishing it is not something I have time for and you can't get to it all anyway. So it stays green.

4) Best replacement alternative? WHALE makes a complete system for marine piping on boats, both hot and cold water, modular, with its own ends and fittings. Also there are domestic water tubing systems made of PEX tubing which are very durable and would easily stand up to marine use. Including, by the way, the areas where it has to run through the engine room which can get to 140F when the engines are shut down and the whole ER heat-soaks. I don't know what Hatteras uses now; my guess is some kind of plastic tubing, especially as copper is very expensive and there is a world shortage of it. Just my guess, though.

5) FWIW, I have had good service out of regular fixtures that you can buy at Home Despot for galley and head faucets. Also the SS flex lines that you get at HD work fine, if you spray them with C-X as noted. Interestingly, sink basins that will fit a boat are hard to find at HD- I have ended up using "marine" ones from Scandvik or BoatUS, because they tend to be smaller and different shapes. Scandvik in particular has SS or painted SS sinks that are very good, but some of the hookup hardware is a little odd. Like- not the same as domestic plumbing stuff. Some adaptations are needed.

6) Finally, and most important: if you are going to R&R the head or galley faucets in your boat, get a basin wrench. The greatest invention of Western Civilization, at least in the modern era of indoor plumbing, is the basin wrench. Best fourteen dollars I ever spent.
 
Copper water lines are easy to work with and rarely fail. If you have a spot that fails due to corrosion, it can be repaired. I would not change out copper for something else. If there is a run or two that look questionable, just replace with same. A fresh water line leak is much less worry than any other type of leak. Most responsible owners do not leave the boat hooked up to dockside water and this boat has enough tank capacity that you don't need dockside. If you spring a leak, it will most likely be a very short time before it is spotted and even if someone leaves the pump on, it can only leak the contents of the tank and that is all. I would not add water line replacement to the budget except for maybe a few feet of new copper and only if it is really corroded looking.
 
As noted, copper tubing is very durable. If you do decide to repair/replace some, consider an RV parts supplier as they also deal with plumbing supplies on "land yachts". Some newer boats now use PVC piping with compression o ring fittings...maybe the brand listed above. I saw them at a boat show and they looked really good.

A big leak can usually be avoided. As noted, never leave dockisde water pressure connected when you are away. I don't use it ever, even when aboard. When away, always turn the fresh water pump OFF. When underway, unless water is needed, shut the water pump off. (You can't hear it run.) When aboard, leave the water pump "ON". If you hear it cycling abnormally, check for the cause immediately. As noted, a hose over a smooth copper tubing end is prone to leaking and popping off, especialy hot water. A slight flare on the end will help, as will double clamps. And on hot water lines, if you do add some hose over copper, after a few hot water cycles of use, go back and retighten the clamps at least once, better twice.
 
water tubing product:
I just came back from Lowes (Home Improvement) and while there saw WATTS brand flexible PVC tubing connectors..called "push" connectors. The connectors slide on and a nut then clamps down similar to a copper compression fitting arrangement. They look real nice and I would positively use them, or similar, rather than hose or new copper tubing....

The only thing I would check first is how the transition would be made from old copper tubing to new PVC...I did not investiagte because I was so #$%&*&^%$# mad that neither Home Cheapo nor Lowes has 3/4" 10 ft lengths gas pipe in stock that I was distracted!!! Neither store had six elbows nor any couplings either....

Home Cheapo, for one, NEVER has a complete stock of what I need to get a job done...
 
I have a surveyor coming tomorrow to take a look at the pipes. What does everyone think about upgrades. How do you feel about new air or vacuum heads? Fly by wire? Electronics? What would you want to see on a 65' LRC. Post and email your ideas and if we use your idea (same ideas will be selected at random) you will get a Cleanie Dini T-Shirt!
Check out the shirts

http://www.cleaniedini.com/CleanieClothing.htm


Email Ideas to dini@cleaniedini.com

Regards Dini
 
What are you thinking of replacing? Is it servicable now? Most of the OEM equipment that Hatteras installed was quite good. I would not replace it just because of it's age unless it is truely in bad shape. Many of the systems are better than the industry standards of today and can simply be rebuilt. For example, you have plenty of holding tanks on a 65 and the OEM GalleyMaid macerator heads are almost indestructable. I would consider just replacing hoses on those. Vacuflush are nice, but they don't come in 32v units anymore and you don't need to reduce flush volume with all of that tankage.

My advice is to only replace the most necessary items after a thorough assessment of the current servicability of each. This will also help to keep you within budget.
 
Some things like rudder indicator and the engine synchronizer are not working. I emailed Galley Maid to try to get replacement parts but have not heard back yet. I would question more things like Electronics and such. They took out the water maker, should I put another one in. My dad used to sell water filters and softeners and I was thinking of putting those in. The boat came with stock fridges outside the master stateroom, worth replacing (they are pretty beat). Do you guys like security systems, entertainment (LCD TV), upper deck (grill, bar, entertainment). I am also struggling with the lounge vs. table areas. For instance would you rather have a table in the froward salon or a couch? On the upper deck fiberglass seating or table and chairs?

For a skiff old school refurbished whaler or a new RBI?

Those are just some of the things that I have been considering. The boat has NO electronics, no appliances, no flooring, no toilets in the head or sinks/cabinets in head.

Regards Dini
 
The general feeling here seems to be that if you are going to replace the whole head system, SeaLand Vacuflush systems are the best. Note that they can only be installed by SeaLand or one of their dealers.

Appliances? pick the most reliable you can. They are a pain to get in and out.

As a rule, you should leave as much of the original ship's systems in there as you can and not try to reengineer things just for the sake of making them "new". The naval architect and engineers that designed these boats were the best in the field- essentially this is why this forum exists- and they chose carefully when they decided what was going into a Hatteras. For example, you should replace the fresh water system only if it really needs to be replaced, not because you want to "update" it.

Also keep in mind, unless you are the new owner and new end user, that tastes differ, and anyone wanting a 65' cruising yacht will have strong opinions as to what they desire in the boat. You should leave as many of those choices for the new owners to make as you are able to; basically what you want to do is provide a clean and blank canvas onto which they can paint themselves and their family.
 
We do leave the city water supply on as we are full time liveaboards. But, I went to Home Depot and installed a flowmeter so we can regulate the water from 1- 1,000 gals.
I keep it at the 200 gal setting and as it's connected on the dock at the faucet so I can see if it needs to be reset each time I walk by.
But if we go away for more than a day, we will turn the water off
 
A Vacuflush system can (and sometimes is) installed by the end user, but it will void their warranty. IMHO, who cares - either it works or it doesn't, and you can send the COMPONENTS in for replacement if it doesn't.

You just have to buy the components separately instead of as a "system" if you want to do it yourself.
 
Anyone buying a 65 LRC is going to want to outfit it their way. If I was cleaning one up for resale, I would do only the basics.

A residential style water filtration system is not a replcement for a water maker!
 
There is a reason that new boats don't come with electronics already installed. Some give an electronics allowance, some let you order them as options, and most let you use some outside electronics dealer to order and install. This is because the buyers have different needs and preferences. I would rather buy this boat with no electronics and then have someone install what I want than to buy it with stuff that I may want to change anyway.

Things of value to me would be: new or recently wheeled paint (OEM colors), original systems all in operating condition, wood work with OEM type finish (no wall paper or paint in the interior), clean (clean bilges, clean engines, clean cabinets, clean window tracks, clean fittings)and perfect brightwork with 15 or so coats of real varnish.

I look at all of the little things like pitted chrome and fixtures, and degrading rubber window seals. I would like to see a boat that looked like it just came of the line at Hatteras.

I don't care about the carpet color (the Admiral is going to be changing that). Most buyers will want to decorate a boat to their own tastes. This is subjective. Just get the boat sound structurally with no more leaks and get it clean and operable. Then it will appeal to many buyers who are looking for that size boat as they will be able to see the possibilities of what they would do if they owned her. Buyers like to do the fun stuff like decorating and installing electronics. What they don't want to do is buy a project where they will have to pull new waste hoses or dig out a rusted old water maker or clean oily bilges.

These of course are my personal opinions and you or other here may disagree. I just think that if you are doing all of this work to try to sell her, you need to appeal to a broad range of people and not narrow your potential buyers by spending money on things that may not be of value (and may actually devalue the boat) to some buyers.
 
I would keep the boat as origional as possible. People do not buy these boats expecting a modern look. I would get the interior wood work up to par, retint the windows, change facuets, change appliances, cheap carpet w/ good pad, and new furnature. I would get the engine room clean, replace all hoses, new double clamps, cleanup any corosion, replace batteries if needed, get engines/gennys/trans up to par, replace canvas, bottom job, polish all stainless and polish/paint the exterior. When it comes to electrionics I would put in the basics like VHFs, antennas, chartplotter, depth finder, radar and maybe even an autopilot. The boat should be turnkey, if someone really wanted to customize one of these they would buy one on the cheap and send it to Mr. Slane.
 

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