Bright work finishes

[Boss Lady]

Has anyone used any finishes that work better than varnish that really lasts and looks as good? I hope there are some new inventions, since varnish looks real good and then is very labor intensive after that. I am all ears. I would like first hand use recommendations, not the slick marketing ads. Info like how many coats, how long did it last before recoat, when it ages, what does it do? Crack, peel, turn yellow/white any details would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I really believe that there is no substitute for good varnish. I have tried Bristol, but the verdict is still out on that.

 

[hattitude]

I switched to Bristol finish over a year ago. I applied it over a good base of CPES and four coats of varnish. So far it has proven to be bullit proof. Time will tell...

Bernie

 

[Boss Lady]

I have seen Bristol, but the two boats that I saw with some age on them did not look so good, one was peeling after 15 months. I do not know if it was applied properly or not. Also what about recoat when that time comes?

 

[Maynard Rupp]

Our Bristol finish is 3 years old. That of course is in Michigan where the boat spends 6 monts in inside heated storage. It does seem to be holding up well. Others thet have used Bristol say that it does not hold up well where people are stepping on it. Our steps to the bridge have Bristol and still look fine, only a few scratches.

 

[richardoren]

Hi Boss,

Off Topic: BTW I replied to your PM belatedly - thanks for checking when you have a moment!

On Topic: I am in the process of stripping all of the interior wood of my baby Hatt, and am using 5F5 Methanol Chloride and a window scraper (razor blade) to get off the old stuff. My brother said that it would bleach the wood, but so far I haven't seen it do that.

I plan to use Epiphany varnish, which some here say is the absolute best (exception made of those who swear by Bristol). If you learn of anything better, let me know before I go too far...

If anyone here has one of the older boats with Philippine Mahoghany (darker wood) thanks for telling me if you used a stain to make it more red or if you left it natural brown. The cockpit entrance to the salon seems to be tinted and looks darn nice, the rest of the wood looks pretty darn ratty, pale brownish with washed out varnish.

Others with more recent boats, this isn't a teak interior, so the Teak Oil followed by Tung Oil sealer is out. The panels I've started stripping are seemingly solid mahoghany and not veneer - I guess they ran out of that stuff after 1963.

I switched to Bristol finish over a year ago. I applied it over a good base of CPES and four coats of varnish. So far it has proven to be bullit proof. Time will tell...
Bernie

Bernie,

I've heard of CPES for structural wood, but not for treating wood that would then be varnished for a good visual effect. Are you using CPES on the interior (in prevention of window/deck leak damage) or just on exterior wood exposed to lots of water?

TIA.

Richard

 

[spartonboat1]

Yard Manager of Rybovich-Spencer swears by Interlux Schooner varnish of 5-6 coats, followed by 2-4 coats of Awlbrite 3 part varnish. I used this on my wood swim platform to excellent effect. The varnish is applied over a stain to which has been applied a couple costs of sealer.

Two notes:
The 3 part varnish is nasty stuff and special masks must be warn and then in open air if possible.

Interlux formerly recommended against using a 2 part varnish over a single and now has upgraded to strongly recommending against it. Admittedly the Awlbrite sort of struck in to the one part schooner varnish, but the Awlbrite is tough stuff. A tiny amount of Awlbrite goes a long, long way!

Finally, after trying every bristle brush I could buy, interestly enough a high quality dense foam brush worked best by far!

Finally, I tried a couple coats of Interlux Schooner varnish on my wood handrailds, without the stain or sealer and it blew right off in a single season. This is in Michigan, but I store outside where the rails were exposed.

 

[Boss Lady]

Richard I sent you a pm.

Are you sure that you have solid wood and not veneer? If it is solid wood you can sand it, and stain it to make it appear red like Honduran Mahogany or put a veneer of a different species over it. If it is veneer be very careful since that stuff is paper thin. I am not a wood working expert, I have done a few successful refinishing projects and I have also screwed up a couple. Bleached wood is easily fixed with stain, but you have to get the old sealing coat off or it will be blotchy, since the stain will not penetrate into the wood. Be very careful with solovents and make sure that all electrical is switched off, to eliminate spark sources such as electric motors and such, also good ventilation. Wood is wood, just research the species, some have high oil content and can be a problem to stain, some have toxins in them that are no fun, if you sand them. Use the finest grit sandpaper you can get away with and still remove the finish, veneers sand through very quickly and if you do the wood grain underneath will not match.

 

[luckydave215]

As a kid we (my Dad) had an all varnished teak sailboat, (Teak Lady, hull #1) and I mean ALL varnished, from the waterline to the masthead. This was before UV blocking varnishes, and he and I spent so much time varnishing instead of sailing that he sold her and bought a Thunderbird 26, because it would have broken his heart to paint her white. He was a fanatic about his yachts always being bristol in every respect.
As a teenager, I worked in the Kettenburgh yard as a varnisher, and I've spent many many hours on my own boats since then with a camel's hair brush in my hands. This boring history is only to say that I've seen some varnish a time or two.
I've been using the new Epiphanes varnishes after reading the glowing praise heaped upon them by practical sailor's testers, and they are by far the best I've seen yet. I haven't tried the Bristol products.
For high traffic areas (the steps into my salon, for example) I top coat varnish with clear imron or awlgrip. Those linear polyurethanes are tougher than nails, and really hold up to foot traffic.
There's no big secret to getting a deep, lustorous varnish job, regardless of what brand of varnish you use. Remember, no whiz bang product will ever substitute for careful prep, absolute cleanliness, and at least 12 coats. That "deep enough to swim in" look begns at 30 coats.
Quit talking about it and get to it.

 

[Boss Lady]

I am thinking about using a clear polyester coating (two part), it is truly waterproof, tough as nails, but if it ever has to be removed it is real work to get off. It goes on thick for that wet look. I do not relish doing umpteen coats of varnish. I used to enjoy doing it, but I can no longer spend hours down on my knees to do it. Old Army injuries catching up to me. So I am looking for better solutions.

 

[MikeP]

I have found that varnish wears better under stress, looks a LOT better, and is much easier to repair and refinish later as long as it is maintained.

The problem comes because folks let it deterioriate to the point where it is peeling. Two maintanance coats per season - a couple of day's work - will keep in in excellent condition indefinitely. I like Epifanes but there probably isn't a lot of difference between any of the quality varnishes.

 

[luckydave215]

True, it's not what kind of varnish you put on, it's how much, how often, and how well you put it on that counts.

 

[hattitude]

...

Bernie,

I've heard of CPES for structural wood, but not for treating wood that would then be varnished for a good visual effect. Are you using CPES on the interior (in prevention of window/deck leak damage) or just on exterior wood exposed to lots of water?

TIA.

Richard

I've only used it on the exterior teak..


A very experienced painter/varnish guy I've used says to use CPES when as the first two coats after taking the teak down to bare wood. He then puts five coats of varnish on top of that. He roughs and coats about every eight months. I used this regime with great success, until I redid my chair. The varnish took a beating.

A dock neighbor had used bristol finish on his cockpit coaming boards. They get alot of traffic and they looked great after over a year.

I used Bristol on the chair (over the varnish base) with great success. I put two coats of Bristol over my other exterior varnish.. it has so far lasted longer, looking better than the varnish alone...

So far, anyway.....

Bernie

 

[captwoodyb]

We have had real good luck with sikens over the last 4 or 5 years. Stripped the teak hand rails down to bare wood, used satin finish 2-3 coats, then two coats of sikens high gloss thinned just a little. We wet sand lightly each year and apply one coat of high gloss, maintains all season, no cracking peeling or usual deterioration associated with many varnishes.

 

[Pascal]

i used Cetol lights on my rails 2 years ago.. 2 coats of light, 2 coats of gloss. so far so good... I added a coat of light after a year, going to add another one this week. I like the fact that you dont' have to sand 100ft of rails between coats !

i woudlnt' use Cetol for a large surface like doors or wet bar, I think Mike found out the hard way.... but on railings, it works.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Just beware. Sikkens is not varnish. It does not look like varnish and it will never look like varnish. If you want a top quality job that looks like varnish, well, guess what? You have to use varnish.

 

[spartonboat1]

Can anyone say with some certainty as to what wood was used for the 1970's Hatt handrails? Thx...

 

[Boss Lady]

I have taken mine off the boat, and can check them on Monday and post the results here. I will have my shipwright check this, he will be a better judge than me.

 

[Captned]

Three part Awlbrite is easy and is the best stuff I have used. Dries super fast and is holding up very well for me in the florida sun..

M2C

Captned

 

[Paul45c]

Just beware. Sikkens is not varnish. It does not look like varnish and it will never look like varnish. If you want a top quality job that looks like varnish, well, guess what? You have to use varnish.

No question, but as Pascal said, for those that are willing to put up with a CLOSE to varnish look for a lot less labor effort, you really can get Cetol to look pretty good. I'd never used the stuff before, and a prior boat I owned came with it.

Some wood on the boat was in very good shape and only needed another couple of topcoats of the Cetol Light (the clear); other parts had to be completely taken down to the bare wood and redone completely. When I went to WM to get what I needed and talked to some people with experience with Cetol, I was told to do a minimum of 2 coats of the Cetol Marine (the base coat). The CM Marine is the nasty-looking stuff that gives it that characteristic orange hue that ain't gonna fool anybody. It sure didn't fool me after brushing out the first couple of sq. feet of it. So, I only did one CM Marine base coat, and did CM Light for the rest of it. The look was pretty good.

I'm sure I sacrificed some durability according to the chemists at Sikkens, but the stuff remains flexible so much longer than varnish that I was willing to chance that. And, just like with varnish, if you get the topcoats to it soon enough prior to blistering, you can keep that finish going indefinitely.

FWIW, I think you base the decision on whether to go Cetol or varnish based on how much wood you have and how much help you have. Within 5-7 days, you can recoat without sanding between. That's pretty convenient.