Boy do I hate that dang white sanitation hose...

[MikeP]

I replaced most of the white stuff last year with Parker Armada hose EXCEPT that PITA section that runs under the passageway to the starboard eng room. Today I noticed a faint whiff of waste and, sure enough, that white hose has gone the way of the rest of the white hose...permeated.

In a recent thread I had commented that when the time came I would replace that hose with plastic pipe, even though previously I was of the opinion that that was a bad idea due to vibration, etc. However, since others have done this with no apparent problems I guess I'll pull up the passageway/master SR carpeting and do this. I'm really annoyed with myself because a few years back I replaced the Bellowflex hose that Hatt used originally with that white crap. There was no odor problem of any kind with the old hose, I just figured that I should replace it with "modern" stuff that the manufacturers claim is better. What a mistake! My advice is to NEVER use that white vinyl hose that is labeled as "sanitation hose." Parker Armada is the equivalent of the old Bellowflex.

With my rant out of the way, is one of the other types of plastic pipe more suitable for this than the regular white PVC that is used in homes?

 

[davidwigler]

I think the strongest PVC is called Schedule 80 and is available only at plumbing supply stores. It would be well worth the extra materials cost to have the best product.

 

[Boatsb]

32 years and the hose is shot. i'd never use that stuff again either. I hope it did not have something chafe through and cause it to fail prematurely or you will kick yourself.

 

[SeaWhisper]

Mike,

We have replaced all of our lines along the starb side with 2" schedule 40 PVC. Aft and midship Heads are connected to vacuflush system. Only location of white hose (2 feet), is where the duckbills are located adjacent to the vacuum pump.

 

[Angela]

Mike, I ran schedule 40 PVC up from the master head, along the outboard side of the boat, under the exhaust tubes as far as I could could go. I had to jog over at the guest head and then resume my PVC run all the way to the bow tank. It was a bitch of a job, and an extra pair of hands would have been really handy, but I got it done anyway. I would cut the longest length of pipe I can manage to get through the cabinetry, then glue a coupling on, and attach another length of pipe and kept shoving it forward until I reached the other end where I wanted to be. As you probably know, you can access all those little areas behind all of the sinks and showers along the way. Just a thought before you go pulling up carpet and flooring.

I'm quite happy with it. I am not happy with the little section of hose which stinks again, but I can only smell it in one engine room (and it's not too bad yet), so until I can get a whiff of it in the living quarters I'll leave it be until I just absolutely have to re-do it again.

 

[MikeP]

"32 years and the hose is shot. i'd never use that stuff again either. "

Where'd that 32 years come from?

To clarify what I thought I had stated in the original post, the white sanitation hose that I used to replace all the oem Bellowflex hose "a few years back" lasted about 3 years. I'd call that abysmal performance by any standards.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Shi-ty performance indeed, so to speak.

 

[Bob Bradley]

Man is that the truth. I put in the "oder safe" white garbage 3 seasons ago and it simply stinks. I didn't have much choice - I had to replace the original as it was closing up on the inside. This white hose is crap inside and out.

I drank the koolaid from Peggy on the old Boatered site and originally put it in my old wooden Chris when I rebuilt her in '97, and had the same problem within 3 years. I blamed the environment of the old woodie, and gave it another shot in the Hatt. What a mistake.

Never again!

 

[MikeP]

"I drank the koolaid from Peggy "

Yep, that's exactly what I did!

 

[Boatsb]

OK so the original stuff only lasted 29 years.

 

[GJH]

We have Sealand Odor Safe Plus on board that is at least 6 years old, probably closer to 8 with no sign of permeation. It's supposed to be the gold standard and is priced accordingly. Perhaps having fresh water Vacuflush toilets (3 seperate systems)contributes to that; there really isn't anything in the hoses 99% of the time, and fresh water follows the waste down the pipe every flush. That and a little white vinegar every now and then helps, I don't know, but there is no issue here for us.

 

[krush]

Mike please clarify...would the original hose still be working nicely if left in? When you replaced the original, was it brittle etc?

 

[saltshaker]

My 46C was a '74 and still had the original hoses and Galley Maid heads. No odors or problems with either head. When I bought the boat I figured I'd be replacing it all soon. 12 years later and it was still fine. I've got the Sealand odor safe hose on the 65. It was installed in '08 along with all new FW flush heads. So far no odor anywhere.

 

[MikeP]

First, I should say that I ASSUME the Bellowflex hose that I replaced with the white stuff was original since the PO kept thorough records of everything they did and there was no mention of changing any waste hoses. The boat never had any waste odor and testing the old hoses as per Peggy's method did not reveal any permeation. However, I decided to replace the hose based on reading Peggy's info, assuming that the hoses would soon cause a problem being so old.

Krush - In retrospect, I think the old hose might still have been just fine. They generally looked OK though there were some cracks in the exterior wall in some areas with tight turns. But again - there was no odor.

Now, the only white hose that is still on the boat is that portion I mentioned in the first post. All the rest is has been replaced. Interestingly, a couple of hours ago I got on the Trident website and they now comment on the fact that the white vinyl sanitation hose that they sell is prone to early permeation under various conditions that could be quite common. I suspect that since the hose is used in/through the eng room (heat) and there are waste treatments systems on the boat (chlorine), these adversely affect the hose. Here is the quote from their site:

"Sewage allowed to set in the hose develops acids and gas that shorten its odor free life. This is especially the case with our most popular white (vinyl) XHD Sanitation Hose (#148 series), where petroleum based lubricants, excessive heat softening, and fluids containing alcohol, petrochemicals or solvents can damage this hose and shorten its "odor free" life. This is a good and cost effective sanitation hose, but for maximum "odor free" performance, and long &/or non self-draining installations, we recommend our Premium Sanitation Hose (#101 series). It’s heavy wall, 2 ply with wire helix construction is more forgiving, flexible, installation friendly and odor resistant. "

It sounds to me like even Trident doesn't think it's very good hose!

 

[Boatnut]

Sounds a bit like the same old story, you get what you pay for. Home Cheapo sells white stuff, which is usually the first clue that it's no good.

 

[GJH]

You guys seem to assume that all white sanitation hose is the same. It's not, and the prices reflect it. See also Trident's comment about their various grades. I have one of my VF units in an engine room, so there is white hose running the entire length of the ER save the vacuum bottle and the pump. Another is in the generator room, which can get pretty hot too.

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|51|106370|315126&id=150748

Schedule 40 PVC is certainly cheaper than the top grade hose, so that's a consideration. Note that some versions are for potable water only.

 

[MikeP]

""You guys seem to assume that all white sanitation hose is the same."

I'm sure you are correct that there are different grades of the white stuff. But at the time, I installed the white stuff that Peggy recommended, ASSUMING that since she was some sort of "expert" on the subject, she knew what she was talking about. I certainly didn't know anything about it at the time. I visited her site early this morning and find that NOW (as opposed to then) she recommends Trident's 101 hose which is the same construction as the Bellowflex and Armada (and has a 10 year warranty against odor permeation)

There may be other factors at work re environment or whatever as far as the white hose is concerned but all I can say is that with the oem hose there was never any waste odor. With the white stuff that I used, it permeated within approx 3 years - less in some areas. The white stuff in the eng room that fed directly from the GM waste treatment system went south in one year.

I probably shouldn't be looking for the cheap way here but plastic pipe is a lot less expensive than another 20-30 feet of Armada (or Trident 101) and it would be a lot easier to work with in that long run under the passageway/starboard eng room.

 

[Bob Bradley]

"I drank the koolaid from Peggy "

Yep, that's exactly what I did!

BTW, did you also know that you could eliminate all your holding tank oders by adding her special all natural bacteria jungle juice to the tank?

Oh, and are you interested in buying any swampland in FL or a bridge in Brooklyn?

 

[Avenger]

Oh, and are you interested in buying any swampland in FL or a bridge in Brooklyn?

If you expect to unload those you'll need to offer them as "prime waterfront real estate in Central Florida" and an "open floorplan NYC apt with an unobstructed view."

It's all in the marketing.

 

[bobk]

If you have only a short length of hose that is permeating, you can reduce or eliminate the odor by tightly wrapping a few layers of heavy Saran Wrap around it.

Bobk