Boat Search, Boat shows, Hatteras Classics looking for advice

[dgltrader]

Hello,

This is my first post on the forum (I have been lurking for awhile) and as a “newbie” I am looking for some help.

I am hoping to get into a Hatteras Classic MY sometime in the next 4 to 12 months and seriously begin the search now.
Actually I have been soaking up everything I can for quite a while and realize the market and industry are very much in flux…offering unique opportunities. But also it seems more than ever before finding the right boat is even more critical.

This would be first “big” boat and has been something that I have wanted to do for quite awhile… in the past I have enjoyed the bay and near shore outside in smaller faster “day” boats. Those days I only thought about convertibles if I moved up to “big”.

Now I am interested in living aboard, summers in Chesapeake and traveling south as it gets colder…sound familiar?

So, of course I love the 53 Classic MY and 58’s with their cockpits. But am very much open to the 43 MY/ DC and others, recognizing buying too much boat is easier than keeping it up.
Occasional irrational fits do drive me to consider a few “other” boats in the range…maybe, only maybe…

Yes, I have been living on yachtworld for a couple of years.
OK, you’re right, yes I have a list of “maybes”…well you know several lists, with different what ifs.

But now I need to find out how much of the coring will need replaced, that the pictures are from 10 years ago, that the fully rebuilt engines came out of a paint can, the wiring, the systems, etc., etc...$$$$, sweat and time.

And, can I make this work for me? Ideally I would like to do this for 4-5 years then if I find the right place and situation perhaps settle down to the right home berth…anyway.

With several “important” boat shows just around the corner I want to find the people whom I will need to work with in this search…brokers, surveyors, vendors, marinas/yards, etc. and see who might help with what in this search.

I need to put together a list of people who I can represent my interests and point me the right direction.

My time is somewhat limited in October so where and how should I spend it?

• Trawlerfest in Baltimore October 4-9th.

• US Powerboat Show in Annapolis October 13-16th.

• Ft. Lauderdale International Boat Show October 27-31st.

I am currently in southern NC but also in VA (unusual circumstances) and have some commitments in VA between the Annapolis and Lauderdale shows (workable).

If you were going to travel to only two of the three… or even just one, in October what would your choice be for me (and why)?

What would you plan for each event?
How would you allocate time and resources at these shows?

Recommendations, comments, contacts and even those you think I should avoid, are all most welcome.

Thanks in advance.

dgltrader

 

[TopHattandTails]

That's easy 1) FLIBS - it's the grand daddy. The shear amount of fiberglass, people watching, and parties makes it much more than a boat show. 2) Annapolis- great area. Much more manageable of a show. Plus Mike's Crab Shack is an institution unto itself.

 

[jim rosenthal]

If you are going to one show, go to FLIBS. That's easy to answer.

All other things being equal, which they seldom are, your best bet in a used boat is one from the mid-Atlantic or Great Lakes states- there seem to be more boats in covered storage in this area and the Great Lakes, and the overall condition tends to be better. But people have found excellent boats in the northern and southern states as well.

What you need is a good yacht broker- someone who will represent your interest and guide you to the right boats to view, and honest and capable surveyors etc. Having bought boats with and without the advice of a broker, I would not attempt it without one. Your chance of success goes up exponentially when you employ the right one.

 

[Fanfare]

I have not been to Trawlerfest, but I subscribe to Passagemaker Magazine, the sponsor. We pretty much use our motor yacht as a trawler, albeit a fast trawler when needed. If you go there you can probably meet a lot of liveaboards and get an idea of their lifestyle which may help in your purchase decision. They also have a separate "Trawlerfest University" with classes and discussion. I believe you need a reservation for this. Try www.passagemaker.com and see. Passagemaker is currently my favorite boating magazine with great tips and maintenance articles as well as destinations.

I have been to FLIBS but there is so much stuff there that it is exhausting. Something smaller and more intimate might be a better start. I would go to Trawler U., look at the boats, talk to participants, then go to a broker with a more complete idea of what you want.

 

[bobk]

I suggest you buy a moisture meter made for boats (not the Home Depot one for wood and dry wall) and then as you look at boats check for moisture in the usual spots... hard top, fore deck, house sides below windows, etc. You can weed out some big $$ issues this way before you start to get too excited about a boat.

For liveability, look for larger rooms as opposed to a lot of small cut up spaces. Think about how many stair steps to get to the head, galley etc. How is engine room access? Stabilizers are a real plus.

An enclosed sun deck is a real big plus for day to day living as well as entertaining. I'm a big fan of the Series I 48' MY as you probably know from prior posts. It is made to cruise slow and handle well at 6-9 knots but still get up and run on plane. I've been living the cruisers life since retirement 9 years ago. Chesapeake Bay and points north for summers, and migrate south to Florida and Keys for fall - spring.

Bobk
1981 48MY
Chateau de Mer

 

[yachtbrokerguy]

FLIBS (Fort Lauderdale International Boat Show) is the largest boat show in the world so there will be many, many boats there. Unlike many other shows that require only new boats to be on display, there wil be many brokerage boats at the show. However the cost to display a boat is very high, over $6,000 for a boat up to 59 feet, that it may be too expensive to show a classic 43, 53, or 58 in the show itself. There will be many of those however in South Florida that will be for sale.
Trawler Fest is naturally geared more to trawlers. I have only been to the ones here in South Florida, and found them to be low key and pleasant compared to the high intensity of the mega shows.
Often I suggest to clients that they come to Fort lauderdale a week or two after the show and then they can inspect boats that are in their price range and fit their needs without the hassle of parking and traffic. Some sellers might be more motivated after the show also.

 

[ron6785]

The great part of buying a Classic Hatteras now is that you can buy one today that has been well maintained with many upgrades at a price that prior to 2008 you would have paid for a "fixer upper", you couldn't be in the market at a better time.

Don't be afraid of these old boats I have cruised my 73/53MY over 8500 miles with virtually no problems, other than things I knew about the boat when I bought it over the past 3.5 years. In my travels I have come across other cruisers with boat less than 10 years old that have had many more problems than I.

There are many here more knowledgeable about maintenance issues than I , but just count on spending about 20% more money than your worst cast scenario and you'll be fine. At approx 1mpg you can do the math on what its going to cost to cruise the boat.

As I have often said owning a "Big Boat", however you define it, is not for "THE FAINT OF CHECK BOOK".

 

[dgltrader]

If you are going to one show, go to FLIBS. That's easy to answer.

All other things being equal, which they seldom are, your best bet in a used boat is one from the mid-Atlantic or Great Lakes states- there seem to be more boats in covered storage in this area and the Great Lakes, and the overall condition tends to be better. But people have found excellent boats in the northern and southern states as well.

What you need is a good yacht broker- someone who will represent your interest and guide you to the right boats to view, and honest and capable surveyors etc. Having bought boats with and without the advice of a broker, I would not attempt it without one. Your chance of success goes up exponentially when you employ the right one.

Thanks for quick reply...
I am hoping to find a good broker and of course "honest and capable surveyors". Any feedback on what costs to expect from the inspection side are also welcome.

I am very much looking from the Mid-Atlantic to Florida, but will go North for the right boat.
If you have any names (or companies) that I should reach out to, I can sure use the help.
Other peoples good experiences carry a lot more weight than a fancy booth/etc.

 

[GJH]

I was very happy with my main buyer's broker, Clark Sneed of Jarrett Bay Yacht sales. He is based in eastern NC but does biz all over the world. He was recommended to me by Alton Herndon, a president of Hatteras back in "the good old days". Interestingly, the first place he focused on was the Great Lakes, fresh water boats, used half the year, stored inside on the hard the other half. Also boats up the Tennessee River. I ended up going with a Maryland boat that had spent about half it's life in New york and the other half or so on the Chesapeake. The one issue with Clark is that he does a bunch of business selling multi-million dollar boats so you may not always be his top priority. But he is honest and very knowledgeableI was living in Texas at the time, so having someone who could separate the wheat from the chaff was important; I don't think I ever looked at something that was a waste of time.

Another guy, who i used in South Florida, that I would not hesitate to use again, is Bo Petty of United Yacht Sales. He was very knowledgeable and straightforward, and focused a little more on boats in your size and price range. I'll always remember standing across the fairway from a 61CPMY "project" boat we had looked at, and him giving me the stem to stern run down on what different types of issues cost to get fixed in the real world, all of which on further experience proved to be spot on. He knows old Hatteras' well. http://www.unitedyacht.com/bopetty.html. Again, he never took me to see something that wasn't worth it, and his pre-visit summaries of the pros and cons were accurate.

You may not use either of these guys, but their characteristics are important. Remember, they still get paid from the seller's funds, so someone who will give you a frank estimate of what the price should be and the risks of a particular boat is hard to find. The smart ones know that if they treat you right, you will recommend them, and use them again in the future.

As for surveyors, get many first hand recommendations (from anyone but a broker), and someone familiar with the type of boat you are buying. Typically you are well-advised to get an separate engine surveyor who knows the engines involved (such as the typical Detroits and older Hatts). You also want someone who is articulate, and after the sale will orient you to the engines and their care. The guy I had was (and still is, I call him every now and then for advice) fantastic in that regard.

Personally, I found boat shows pretty useless for shopping for these boats. Nice for getting ideas about certain peices, sometimes. I got a lot of use out of them after I bought the boat to talk to the various boat equipment suppliers; Miami is terrific for that.

 

[Lee Keller]

Hello,

This is my first post on the forum (I have been lurking for awhile) and as a “newbie” I am looking for some help.

I am hoping to get into a Hatteras Classic MY sometime in the next 4 to 12 months and seriously begin the search now.
Actually I have been soaking up everything I can for quite a while and realize the market and industry are very much in flux…offering unique opportunities. But also it seems more than ever before finding the right boat is even more critical.

This would be first “big” boat and has been something that I have wanted to do for quite awhile… in the past I have enjoyed the bay and near shore outside in smaller faster “day” boats. Those days I only thought about convertibles if I moved up to “big”.

Now I am interested in living aboard, summers in Chesapeake and traveling south as it gets colder…sound familiar?

So, of course I love the 53 Classic MY and 58’s with their cockpits. But am very much open to the 43 MY/ DC and others, recognizing buying too much boat is easier than keeping it up.
Occasional irrational fits do drive me to consider a few “other” boats in the range…maybe, only maybe…

Yes, I have been living on yachtworld for a couple of years.
OK, you’re right, yes I have a list of “maybes”…well you know several lists, with different what ifs.

But now I need to find out how much of the coring will need replaced, that the pictures are from 10 years ago, that the fully rebuilt engines came out of a paint can, the wiring, the systems, etc., etc...$$$$, sweat and time.

And, can I make this work for me? Ideally I would like to do this for 4-5 years then if I find the right place and situation perhaps settle down to the right home berth…anyway.

With several “important” boat shows just around the corner I want to find the people whom I will need to work with in this search…brokers, surveyors, vendors, marinas/yards, etc. and see who might help with what in this search.

I need to put together a list of people who I can represent my interests and point me the right direction.

My time is somewhat limited in October so where and how should I spend it?

• Trawlerfest in Baltimore October 4-9th.

• US Powerboat Show in Annapolis October 13-16th.

• Ft. Lauderdale International Boat Show October 27-31st.

I am currently in southern NC but also in VA (unusual circumstances) and have some commitments in VA between the Annapolis and Lauderdale shows (workable).

If you were going to travel to only two of the three… or even just one, in October what would your choice be for me (and why)?

What would you plan for each event?
How would you allocate time and resources at these shows?

Recommendations, comments, contacts and even those you think I should avoid, are all most welcome.

Thanks in advance.

dgltrader

Hello dgltrader, Welcome to the forum. My wife and I just concluded a two year search for our classic Hatteras. We looked at many boats in Fl. but ultimately found a fantastic 58YF in the northeast. I can highly recommend both a buyers and sellers broker as well as a surveyor. PM me if you would like their contact info. Regards, Lee and Marty Keller

 

[bigbill]

there is a great 58 yf for sale in orange beach al. not sure if that is too far for you to travel. she is ready to go. she is listed in the for sale section of the forum, and with gulf coast hatteras. her name is lucky dawg

 

[rsmith]

Just out of curiosity (since no one else ever asks) what is your purchace budget? And what do you plan for a anual operating budget? There are a lot of dreamers out there that can now buy the hull but cant aford the "riggin". Every time a "dreamer" see's how cheap boats have gotten the peeps on here that are "living the dream" will tell you "how sweet it is" but owning a big boat is NOT for dreamers. the reality is,owning one of these big clorox bottles is a major expence and a big PITA. You better have a strong marrige as most of the boats for sale, are because the owners are going thru a divorce. BTW you will hear a lot of BS about % of hull value for operating cost. But the fact is if you buy some old cheap turd it will cost a lot more to maintain than a high priced boat that has been properly maintained.

 

[magnawake]

Let the fun begin !!! Well, I couldnt offer any advise on a broker. But I will say, GET ONE. I bought my 43 without the help of a broker. I'm told I got a good deal, However, many hidden cost were needed after the purchase. A good broker could have seen it coming. BUT, a big BUT, he has to be a good broker. That'll be hard to find. Ron with his 53' came by to see me and we had a really great time. His 53' was impressive to say the least. It made my 43' look like a toy. I like the old Hatts better than the new. What part of South NC do you live. I'm in Southport, NC.

 

[dgltrader]

Great advice, please keep it coming. Also appreciate the PMs.

Thanks to all, as a "newbie" I seem to have some limits on posting, so fear not I am reading it all and very interested.

Hopefully this shows up in the right spot.

One reason for asking about the shows is to see who is doing what and meet contacts.
I am sure that I will focus on a lot of the gear (for refit), but never expected to find "my boat" at the show itself.
Most likely through contacts...you already gave me some great ones.

rsmith... very good points. Already single! no fights there.

But VERY much aware that just like everything else costs can/will vary dramatically in the initial price, rehab required, reg. maintenance...Insurance!
All have to be considered. What yard, marina, mechanic? Huge variations.

It is even hard to create a spreadsheet to either compare boats, OR impossible for the"sunk" capital improvements/rehab and the annual budget, until you are locked in on one boat and market.
But all of it has to be compared in whatever I decide on.

I hope that some of you can fill in some of the blanks for me...
Already looking at big diff. in berthing just in the Chesapeake bay area.

And of course what yard will depend on scope of work...but I need to know who has done good work for others, and not just work but great communication on costs + expectations met.

Honestly reading some of the horror stories is ALMOST enough to make the dream fade.
But better information = better prepared.

Everyone says buy the "best kept" boat you find...and you hear "buy the least boat you need".

This market means that the prices (averages) are possibly at a point where the difference between a 43 and 53 the lowest ever...of course the 53 is going to be more complex, cost more per foot wherever possible.

But the 53 really offers a lot more space, and have no doubt that to "an admiral" much more appeal, if I should become "attached".

I suspect that I would find the newer 40 series nice (single) but maybe a little tight with "companion" for a long period.

By the way this is without a doubt the best forum I follow.

Thanks again, keep it coming, everything helps.

dgltrader

 

[jim rosenthal]

As far as "best one you can find" versus "the least boat you need"..these are two different things. "Least boat" means find a layout and model that will meet your now and future needs, as best as you can anticipate them. That means that you have to personally look at a lot of different boats, to get a sense of what you want. This isn't a perfect process, but try to pay attention to things that will make a difference while you are running the boat, like sightlines from the helm, and side deck width in case you need to go forward to anchor, etc. Engine room access is also important- you can't keep an eye on what you can't get to.

"Best one you can find" means that once you've settled on a model that you like you have to find the best one out there you can afford. That is also where the broker comes in. He or she will help you figure out which ones are worth your time to look at, and which you should cross off the list.

Most of these Hatteras models were built in rather large numbers. Especially the 53s in various forms, which were made for twenty years, more or less. You should be able to find something you like, that you can afford.

 

[GJH]

We had a big advantage when we bought our boat. We had bare-boat chartered for many years before hand and had a very good idea of what we required for a full time live aboard and cruising boat.

There is a huge difference between looking at a boat tied up to a dock and running one underway, anchoring out, docking the thing, and last but certainly far from least, maintaining and repairing it. I like another old boating truism: "the definition of cruising is trying to fix your boat in exotic places".

Order a copy from his website (or I think someone has a copy for sale here) of David Pascoe's "Mid-Sized Power Boats" and read the first 2/3 of it. This will be about the best $70 you ever spent on boating.

When you look at a boat, go to the helm and put your hands on the controls. Ask yourself, "how will I dock this? What can I see from here?" Go to the engine room. Ask yourself, "How would I change a fuel filter out on a choppy sea? How would I change a belt? Or the oil?" It goes down several layers of detail from there, but those are good starting points. I can tell you what works for me, I have no idea what will work for you.

I did go through a comprehensive exercise of "what if?" scenarios when I bought my boat. Such as, what if an engine or transmission blows up? what if fuel doubles and goes to $5 (ended up witnessing that), what if the upper deck rots out? etc. I put all of it into my budget and then added 20% and rounded up. Put all those eventualities into a reserve account; still have most of them there, spent some of it on smaller, but anticipated issues. I bought what was really a "turn key boat" and then anticipated the worst. I have seen many crapped-out boats derelict or sitting in yards for years that were bought ignoring reality and hoping for the best.

Boating is fun, know your limitations financially and physically and skill-wise and it will stay fun, and get more fun for the rest of your life. Ignore those things and it will break your heart.

 

[yachtbrokerguy]

Yes, insurance is one of the things to start investigating now. Some carriers will not insure older boats and some will not insure owners who have not had a lot of experience. For a buyer getting a first big boat that is older, it may be difficult.
Talk to you current insurance agent who has your house or business first to see what you can do, but often they may not do boats. Then check here for some suggestions for other agents. There is no need to waste your time if you can not get insurance.

 

[rsmith]

Yes, insurance is one of the things to start investigating now. Some carriers will not insure older boats and some will not insure owners who have not had a lot of experience. For a buyer getting a first big boat that is older, it may be difficult.
Talk to you current insurance agent who has your house or business first to see what you can do, but often they may not do boats. Then check here for some suggestions for other agents. There is no need to waste your time if you can not get insurance.

Of course if you pay cash you can underwrite your own risk and go liability only. I have owned my current boat for 35 years. for the first 20 the ins averaged $4000/ year on 1mil smooth and 100k on the hull with a 2k deduct. After 20 years and no claims the ins canceled me for no reason. I started shopping around and found it was almost impossible to get hull on a boat that age. I had one outfit in Lauderdale that said they could quote it with a current survey. After spending $2500 for the survey haul out and doing a couple stupid things the surveyor wanted, the company declined to give me a quote. And yes the fine print did say that they could, but the agent assured me that almost never happens. I sat down and thought to myself WTF Ive paid these pricks $80,000 in the last 20 years and have nothing to show for it. I called Boat US and got Liability only for under $500/year and have saved myself at least $75,000 in the last 15 years.
BTW most of the charter fishing boats I know carry no insurance at all and make you sign a release acknowleging the fact.

 

[john41]

If you are going to one show, go to FLIBS. That's easy to answer.

All other things being equal, which they seldom are, your best bet in a used boat is one from the mid-Atlantic or Great Lakes states- there seem to be more boats in covered storage in this area and the Great Lakes, and the overall condition tends to be better. But people have found excellent boats in the northern and southern states as well.

What you need is a good yacht broker- someone who will represent your interest and guide you to the right boats to view, and honest and capable surveyors etc. Having bought boats with and without the advice of a broker, I would not attempt it without one. Your chance of success goes up exponentially when you employ the right one.

Do you have anyone you would recomend as a buyers broker?

 

[bigbill]

where are you located?