B.O.A.T. (break out another thousand)

[luckydave215]

I took the boat out last weekend, only to find that my fish finder AND my #1 radar had failed at the same time. It's just coincidence, but AAARRRGGGHHH! Both are Furuno "commercial grade" units. Now the decision is: Do I spring for a new dual navnet setup or just replace the radar and fish finder, and leave the panel as it is? The difference is about $10,000. I'm thinking I will leave the panel as it is, as I like to have seperate devices, so the whole nav suite can't go black at the same time. That means a new 64 mile radar, and fish finder, at roughly $9,000 instead of $20,000+ to re do the whole thing. I already have 2 Garmin gps's and a plotter, and the #2 radar (also furuno).
If I choose to re do the whole enchilada, I can re arrange the panel, as at this age, the instruments have been added hoge poge over time and could be better arranged.
What do you guys think?

 

[doc g]

I think I would figure out what is wrong with the radar. I just replaced the HV section and crt on mine Furuno 8251 (25KW, 96 Mi. ) for less than 800 .00. FF's are relatively cheap compared to a nice commercial grade radar....Pat

 

[skindr]

If the money's no problem, than, of course spring for all new equiptment. But if that were the case, you wouldn't be asking the question, would you? I chose a third option - repair the old units. I've stretched many Furuno way beyond their useful life, well into 2 decades on some occasions by searching for a good repairman who had access to rebuilt circuit boards (some guy in So. Carolina) at a price about 1/3 of new. Of course, buyer beware, as warranties, if there are any are short and of questionable value. But, to date, I've never been burned. I am currently using an 80's vintage, 72 mile color Furono which, while I lack interfacing capabilities, will still show me birds 5 miles from by boat working on the surface. Good luck!

 

[Genesis]

Yep.

Do you want new? Then go new.

If not, then I'd at least price repairs. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Furuno stuff is awesome in general - especially their FFs. I have a 667 on Gigabite and while not thought of as one of their "best" it will mark bottom to well over 1000'!

 

[luckydave215]

I already sent the old radar to furuno in seattle to be evaluated, and they said the magnetron and one of the main circuit boards are dead, and the serial # indicates it's 17 years old. $1400 to fix, and then I have a 17 year old radar with almost all 17 year old parts inside. I'm not going to throw $ at it. It says a lot about the quality of furuno commercial grade electronics that it worked for this long. My #2 radar is also a commercial grade furuno, and it still works, but the magnetron is getting weak. It works good enough for a backup unit, though. The fish finder has a transducer problem as well as a crt problem, and it's an old one too. Another case of me not wanting to throw $ at old electronics.

 

[Liquid Asset]

It sounds to me like you want the Navnet, and you just need somone to tell you to go out and buy it. If that is what you need, then I say you should go out and spend the money. Hey, it will only cost about $15k to do it right, and of course, its only money .

On second thought, you may think that $1400 for the magnatron is not looking so bad.

 

[doc g]

Oh, and let me be the first to say--it's not "break out another thousand" ,it's," break out another ten thousand". This especially meaningful if you are eagerly awaiting your insurance renewal (as I am) ......Pat

 

[luckydave215]

The question I was trying to pose is: Have any of you reconfigured you panel to the latest flat panel integrated style, and how much of a hassle was it dealing with the old original wiring? Did everything original refuse to work after it was disturbed? I would have to rip the whole dash (face) out and start from scratch to fit the modern displays, as my plotter and #1 radar are in nicely varnished flush fitted "boxes" with hinged plexi tops on either side of the helm at present. To fit anything different, I'll have to start from the beginning and design a "clean sheet" dash layout.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Dave, I am going throught something like this trying to add bits to my Northstar 6000i system. It turns out that their radar sucks, accordingly to PBR.
Frankly, if your boat is already set up for separate systems, I would buy those again. I am not that much a fan of the "all the eggs in one navigational basket" approach. You could buy a very good Furuno radar (they seem to be the best) and a separate sounder. If you want a unified system the RayMarine ones (E series?) seem to be getting rave reviews. The Northstar is good, but only on the nav and sounder parts.
I would not repair a 17yo radar either, honestly, although if everything looks good inside you might chance it. I suppose if you fixed it and got, say, a year or two, you would have done okay. But you can buy a new Furuno for what, 4K?
What about buying the Navnet system in pieces? That seems to be the whole idea of systems like that, you can add bits as you go along. That way, you can spread the $$$ cost out over a year or two. Does that help?

Best prices seem to be at Marine Electronics Unlimited, by the way, on the web.

 

[StratPlan61]

You might try this, buy some 1/2" styrofoam sheets at the local Lowe's/Home Depot/? and make a few mock-ups. Angle cut the edges and tape it together similar to what your 'new' helm might look like. You can tape/pin blank sheets to them, move 'em around, etc. Also, make more than one mock-up. Try a 3-sided, maybe a reverse-angle face one, maybe all left/right sided, etc. Taller, shorter, etc. Find the 'right' arrangement. You may find you are not moving things all that far, maybe with a few new pieces of equipment, you can minimize the real re-arrangement. Might be more subtle than first thought?? The wiring impact may be slight, or only impact 1-2 pieces of gear.

Bear'
1984 61' MY Strategic Plan

 

[luckydave215]

Too bad all the pics I have of my boat are high res, and can't be posted on this forum, or I'd show you all my existing panel. It's pretty piecemeal at this stage in the boat's life. There are the throttles (Morse electronic), syncronizers, engine switches, engine instruments, pump switches, light switches, flood light switches, spotlight controls, binnacle, a log, a sounder, a fish finder, two autopilots, two radars, plotter, egt's, sea temp, alarm panel, ship's horn, stereo, intercom, etc. At least my radio's (3), gps's (2) and hailer are in an overhead box.
All of the above will have to be relocated/replaced to properly fit the integrated navionics in the center where they belong. The prospect is daunting, but then the boat is worth the expense. I'm just dreading opening the inevitible can-of-worms that disturbing all those old electronics will entail. I'm a litle afraid I'll end up replacing everything. It's not fabricating the new panel, that's simple, as I have a 4 axis machining center that can cut a 48"x66" part in one setup.
Maybe I'm just being lazy. Or smart. I can't tell the difference.

 

[Genesis]

When I bought Gigabite there was no networked units, but the stuff in the panel was old and nasty.

I ripped it all out, made new mounting plates out of wood, varnished it up all nice and purty and then mounted terminal blocks on the back for all the interconnects.

It was definitely worth it..... I'd do the same thing if I was refitting electronics again....

 

[luckydave215]

Genesis, it's tempting. All of my equipment currently works (except the radar and sounder) and I've heard that you should let sleeping dogs lie. If I go ahead with the grand project, I will probably hate myself somewhere along the way. We'll see.

 

[MicroKap]

I've been reading a little about Nobeltec's new radar blackbox that will convert a preexisting analog radar into a digital format that can be overlayed on Nobeltec's Visual Navigation Suite. By utilizing a computer and pc charting software in the future, you may be able to utilize a replacement Furuno radar (stand alone) and not have to go with the Navnet system. You can throw out the cpu every few years and you may still be ahead of the Navnet cost, plus you get weather overlays and updates to your charts for free.

I have a 1980 60' Sportfish and I think that is the way I'm going to go, first replacing my old bridge computer and navigation program. Maybe next year, I'll see about the black box.

Larry K.
1980 60' Sportfish
Monmouth Beach, NJ

 

[luckydave215]

So there IS another 60' sportfish owner on the board. I thought Ross Macdonald and I were the only ones.

 

[Mike36c]

Think of it as a "repower" of your electronics, you'll never recover the investment if you intend to sell your boat in the near future but if you're going to keep her, do it right and enjoy the new technology. I have a "all in one" Raymarine system that is nothing short of amazing but to sleep better I bought a color garmin handheld as a backup. We leave for a 3 week Bahama adventure Monday with no worries. BTW, Back in the old days round dial pilots were terrified of computerized, flat screened cockpits for the same reasons. Now, everything down to a cessna 172 has them. Something to think about.....

 

[Genesis]

Call me old-school if you want but there is no way you can get the fine interpretation of analog instruments from a digital display.

I can detect the twitch of an oil gauge caused by an engine low on oil sucking air intermittently when in rough seas. You'll never see that on a digital gauge.

I have no quarrel with plotters and such, or even radar, but when it comes to certain instruments I still prefer analog.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I agree on the analog gauges. You can tell instantly if a needle is not in the right place without having to even see the numbers. I think your brain just processes it easier than thinking about what numeric value each component is supposed to be running at. You know what pressure or temp is within range, but it's just quicker with the analog to see if everything is okay or not.

 

[Genesis]

The problem with digital is sampling rate. An analog needle has faster response.

You CAN make a digital that is as good as an analog in this regard but nobody does in the consumer market because the price of doing it is quite high. I've implemented it tho in certain real-time control situations - other than the fact that the "needle" is on a display you can't tell its digitally-driven.

 

[luckydave215]

I'll be the first one to admit I'm used to steam gage airplanes. I'm not adverse to all-in-one electronics, except for one thing. I don't want to have everything die at the same time. Stand alone devices help prevent that.
As for Raymarine, I had all Raymarine integrated electronics on my last boat, and to say the least, the quality and reliability is poor. The only thing I didn't have trouble with was the autopilot, and the display for that ingested water through the face. Everything else died more than once. Junk, suitable for a Bayliner. You couldn't give them to me.